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NEWS: Kickstarter to Give Barefoot Gen Manga to Schools, Libraries Reaches Goal


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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Interesting. I never even gave the thought about multiple levels of surrendering. It's a pretty recent concept to me.

While it was never directly taught in school (or college) to me, an impression I had in history class was that there's only one kind of surrender: Total surrender. Either you won a war and could now decide what to do with the losers in however way you please, or you lost a war and were subject to every demand that the winners made, and hoped the winners felt merciful to you.

But most of my history teachers had kind of a sympathy for any side that lost a war, regardless of which war it was. There may have been a bias to make the winners seem more brutal and cruel.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5484
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:13 am Reply with quote
residentgrigo wrote:
I can guarantee you that children won´t read it as my library has it too and the only readers are 40+ or me (age 26). (The same goes for Grave of the Fireflies btw.)
The reasons are obverse but it also looks very "old" and was published before let´s say a decade ago so it is for grandparents and scholars of comics only. Now go and watch HBO´s White Light/Black Rain: The Destruction of Hiroshima you all.


I hear about this a lot, and it always surprises me. In my own experience you can show a young person, a cartoon or comic book from long ago and they will react the same way as if it was new, because I suppose to them it is new.
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1848
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:05 am Reply with quote
Whilst most ANN readers have heard of Grave of The Fireflies even if they haven't watched it, it is also worth a visit when in Tokyo to a place like "The Center of the Tokyo Raids and War Damage" http://www.tokyo-sensai.net/, to get an idea of how bad the firebombing was.



Full-sized model of an incendiary bomb with some actual incendiary shells in front of it.
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yaki-udon



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 83
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:20 am Reply with quote
I think it was a huge mistake for Japan to attack America in the first place. We should have been content with occupying China, Korea, and Southeast Asia. We wouldn't be worrying about the decline of the population right now. But in all seriousness, I consider Japan's shrinking population to be a good thing. Japan is about the size of California and what's worse, only about 30% of the land is inhabitable. There's just too many people living on this small island.

My opinion of Barefoot Gen is that it is not so much an anti-war manga as an anti-Japan manga.
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:59 am Reply with quote
While I think that it is a good idea to make this manga available, I doubt that it will resonate enough with most kids nowadays to be worthwhile (I'm specifically referring to schools, not the library aspect). Maybe it will be the subject of the occasional Book Report or something similar, but that's about as much involvement as those books will get, IMO.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:50 am Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:

I hear about this a lot, and it always surprises me. In my own experience you can show a young person, a cartoon or comic book from long ago and they will react the same way as if it was new, because I suppose to them it is new.


It's a different matter if they associate it with people of their parents' or grandparents' age though.

Hameyadea wrote:
While I think that it is a good idea to make this manga available, I doubt that it will resonate enough with most kids nowadays to be worthwhile (I'm specifically referring to schools, not the library aspect). Maybe it will be the subject of the occasional Book Report or something similar, but that's about as much involvement as those books will get, IMO.


Oh, that'll get kids to REALLY not like reading it.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:13 pm Reply with quote
Hameyadea wrote:
While I think that it is a good idea to make this manga available, I doubt that it will resonate enough with most kids nowadays to be worthwhile (I'm specifically referring to schools, not the library aspect). Maybe it will be the subject of the occasional Book Report or something similar, but that's about as much involvement as those books will get, IMO.
You don't have to reach 100% of the kids 100% of the time with 100% of the materials. In order to reach some kids the material has to be available even if its just in a school library where a kid picks it up randomly and reads it. Its also the job of teaching to explain why its relevant. Again it wont grab all the kids, but exposure is important because down the road (ideally speaking) when they come across material dealing with similar ideas they will have something to connect it to.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:10 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Interesting. I never even gave the thought about multiple levels of surrendering. It's a pretty recent concept to me.

While it was never directly taught in school (or college) to me, an impression I had in history class was that there's only one kind of surrender: Total surrender. Either you won a war and could now decide what to do with the losers in however way you please, or you lost a war and were subject to every demand that the winners made, and hoped the winners felt merciful to you.

But most of my history teachers had kind of a sympathy for any side that lost a war, regardless of which war it was. There may have been a bias to make the winners seem more brutal and cruel.
Unconditional surrender wasn't ever really done on a power-to-power basis historically, unless it was a flat-out war of conquest; Roosevelt plucked the phrase from the demand Grant made of one Confederate fort during the Civil War(and even the famous surrender at Appomattox Courthouse included a list of pre-discussed terms). Having guarantees over how they'll be treated can make enemy forces much more likely to lay down their arms even while they can still fight.
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Anime Hero25



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:04 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Interesting. I never even gave the thought about multiple levels of surrendering. It's a pretty recent concept to me.

While it was never directly taught in school (or college) to me, an impression I had in history class was that there's only one kind of surrender: Total surrender. Either you won a war and could now decide what to do with the losers in however way you please, or you lost a war and were subject to every demand that the winners made, and hoped the winners felt merciful to you.

But most of my history teachers had kind of a sympathy for any side that lost a war, regardless of which war it was. There may have been a bias to make the winners seem more brutal and cruel.
I read a book on the subject and my teacher backed it up, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on a hoilday, their wartime actions also didn't really paint a rosy picture for the allies ether.

I don't see how you teacher could sympathize with them actually I could doesn't the losing side have to pay for damages in restitution?
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:00 pm Reply with quote
In the case of Japan, what I remember was that there was some agreement (I think one of the Atlantic Charters) where for every five ships the United States had, Germany would also have five ships but Japan could only have three. However, the United States and Germany would look the other way if Japan took over parts of Asia. So a few years down the line, the Japanese military started taking over Manchuria and parts of Korea. By then, the United States had a different president (FDR, I think), who was not okay with it, so they sent forces over to defend the rest of Asia. Discussions between the United States and Japan began heated, got bitter, and before anyone else knew it, Pearl Harbor was bombed.

That's how my AP US History class had it.

Considering most of my history classes pertained to either US history or European history, it'd make sense that most of my teachers would side with whoever lost, because they were usually some civilization getting invaded, then curb-stomped and taken over.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13597
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:42 am Reply with quote
While I personally feel events like the Rape of Nanking, Pearl Harbor bombing, and the atomic bombing on Hiroshima & Nagasaki was wrong from the standpoint that many unnecessary people were harmed, the same argument can be made about war in general. That is, since wars often have events that will harm so many unnecessary people. By "unnecessary people", I mean those that didn't deserve to be harmed.
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