Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-05-18]
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Ai no Kareshi
Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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I get the feeling you are missing the point of Godwin's Law, Moros. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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The problem with this discussion is that there are some really "out there" people arguing some extreme viewpoints and the people just spoiling for a fight are egging them on. I'm getting cheesed that people like Zac are asking for a "legitimate response" to the merit of the actual work and then TOTALLY IGNORING such once received and instead simply going "look at this idiot" when someone makes an incredibly misguided comment. You guys wanna point out the wackos, go ahead, but if there is to be an "substantive" debate at LEAST acknowledge something other than the ridiculous extremes. Otherwise we get basically what this is now which is:
-All people who ever look at any picture of any person (real or imagined) under the age of 18, no matter the clothing, pose or style, if a single person finds that arousing then that picture is child pornography vs -All behavior of any type is a-ok because morality is arbitrary and entirely relative, and you should either let me gang, tentacle rape your 80 year old grandma AND your 2 year old niece or you're a closed minded facist who endorses slavery and wants to lock up innocent children to run them off to the gass chamber rather than let them play in the real world Both of which are totally idiotic and have NOTHING to do with the original question about the merits or lack thereof of Nymphet. We've actually completely moved BEYOND the work itself to argue about the depravity of people who may not even have a remote interest in the work but DO ascribe to the fetish people assume of all readers of the work. |
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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Because pedophilia is a psychological disorder, and homosexuality is not. Gays are attracted to people of the same gender. They, like straights, have sex with consenting adults. Pedophiles get aroused by young, prepubescent children. A man who is sexually attracted to young boys is not gay; he's a pedophile, just like a man who is attracted to young girls. Nothing pisses me off more than people comparing gays to pedophiles. They are two completely separate, unrelated things. When I saw frentymon's post, I literally saw red (and I know how to use the word, "literal" so when I say it, I mean it). And these people who are advocating pedophilia by saying it's "not wrong" and "as long as it's not acted upon it's okay" are completely sick. Get some help. |
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Ai no Kareshi
Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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Thank you, kyokun703, for explaining the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. Now, could you please explain to me what it is that makes the one a "psychological disorder" and the other not? |
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Moros
Posts: 369 |
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So you stick your tongue out at me. Well, may I suggest you read what Godwin's Law is about on Wikipedia (there was a link in a previous post).
i.e., references to Nazism can still be made as long as it isn't overused. The debate now is whether or not the link between some posters and Nazism is valid. Perhaps it wasn't in this case, perhaps it was. But trying to hide behind the Law actually harms the people it was trying to protect.
Case closed. |
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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The American Psychiatric Association, which puts out the DSM IV. The DSM IV is the official medical manual for all recognized mental health disorders. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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The obvious question being would you immediately shun gays as you might do with pedophiliacs if the APA decided to classify homosexuality as a mental health disorder OR would you immediately accept pedophiliacs if they no longer classified it as such? If you would say no to either, then obviously that is just a made up reason for accepting one over the other. Obviously the pedos are gonna say it's ok to be a pedo, and obviously there are people who say it's wrong to be homosexual. Is acceptance or rejection for one or the other based on some arbitrary standard that CAN change, or is it based on some static standard? |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16961 |
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I tried to avoid this thread but after Zac's quote in the "quotes" thread I can't do it any longer.
I don't feel people wanting to clarify a point is invalid. Is there nudity in this manga? Is there sex? If not, then it's not porn. That's just the facts, morality and opinions aside. It is not porn and it isn't unreasonable for fans of it to what you to clarify that point Zac. You did clarify your post but it seems like it was pulling teeth. That said yes it is still gross and morally wrong. However, simply saying it's porn is not valid and ANYONE saying that should really pay attention. If you CONSIDER it porn then fine, but make it clear that's your OPINION and not fact. I don't want to further dig my own hole but I can't stay quiet any longer. You yourself Zac revised the column saying you didn't want rants about this very subject, among others. Yet you post a question and a response to this very topic. If your goal is to weed this crap out of answerman then why post this? The column is not just the rant, as you well know. So cleaning this crap out of the rant is nice, but if you post this same garbage in the questions section then what was the bloody point of taking it out of the rants area? It'll have the same effect as if it was the rant and not just a question, as proven by this thread. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job so please don't even jump on me for that in anger. I'm simply saying if your goal, as you said before, was to get rid of this crap and have smart rants then you need to clear it out of the WHOLE column. Otherwise you're just defeating the whole purpose.
Here's one right here. Sorry to fall into pathetic sob story mode but here it is anyway. Members of my family, since we immigrated from Ireland, have fought and died for this country in every "war" (hasn't been a real damn war btw since WW2, not since then has congress actually declared war) since WW2. The only "war" a member didn't die in was the first Gulf. They died protecting this damn country and it's values. One being freedom of speech. So you're goddamn right I will defend the PRINTING, not material, of this manga. I may not like it, and may find it rather gross, but I will not deny someone the basic right this country was founded on. People DO have the right to be stupid and run their mouths, or print garbage. On the reverse side, that means we also have the right to criticize what people say or print, but not to deny them the chance to do so. You wanna fight tooth and nail or your view of loli Zac, you'll find I'll equally fight tooth and nail on this specific point. edit----Instead of editing my last point I simply removed it. Given the air of this thread now, and Zac's mood, it would probably just be misunderstood and sonly serve to piss him off even more. Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Thu May 24, 2007 12:29 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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No, because gays do not harm anyone by being gay. Pedophiles harm children. The APA does not tell me who to accept and who not to accept. Ai was asking where I got the info that pedophilia was a psychological disorder and homosexuality isn't. The APA has tons of disorders that are may or may not be harmful to others. Pedophilia is harmful to others. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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They did, before its declassification in 1973. Source: official website.
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Berserkfury819
Posts: 229 Location: Detroit Mi. Spider-Man is dead. R.I.P. |
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[quote="Moros"]
Because we all know that Wikipedia is a legitimate source of information. But c'mon, defending lollicon is bad enough, now peoplw are saying there's nothing wrong with being a pedophile?! God help us. To the lolli defenders, do you understand the word illegal? Do you realize that pedophilia is illegal? Do you realize that pedophilia is a form of rape? I do not see how anyone who considers themself a human being can defend child rape, its beyond disgusting. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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You wouldn't consider it porn, but given the CONTENT, meaning REFERENCES of what's in it, it ain't a little kiddy comic. |
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Anymouse
Posts: 685 |
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I don't like pornography of any kind, and Nymphet seems a bit tasteless, but I am not willing to call this immoral. I am holding to individualism and free markets for the time being, and I believe people who wish to read this have almost as much right to do so as children have the right to be protected from molestation. Whether it was a good idea to license this, I would have to agree with Zac that the answer is no. It's too risky and tasteless. Just to let people know where I am coming from I do consider child pornography and erotic child modeling to be immoral.
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Berserkfury819
Posts: 229 Location: Detroit Mi. Spider-Man is dead. R.I.P. |
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YES THEY ARE. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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For those who may be wondering, this entire post wasn't quoted by one name user in the forums here:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29170&start=450 This is to clear any messups, refer to abunai's post on the page. But as to the never ending pedophile feud, I am against it, spoiler[I struggled with it myself for a while, and it doesn't have a pleasant outcome, ]because it rests heavily on your consciense. Thing is, these people who seem to be obsessed with little kids need professional help, and it's going to come two ways. Psychiatrist or prison. And from what I've heard, prison isn't a pleasant experience. |
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