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Cptn_Taylor
Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:59 pm
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Hoppy800 wrote: |
penguintruth wrote: | I hate to say it, but it almost seems like she's going way overboard in apologizing in a manner that suggests intentionally attracting more attention to herself.
But if it's just more of that bullshit "purity" standard in Japan, they need to get over it. People screw, all right? People screw, they get engaged, they get married, they have kids. Just because there are dozens of hideous, unlikable, unf***able morons, doesn't mean everybody is one. |
It's just the sad and pathetic "purity" standard in play, it needs to die as it breeds stalkers (something Japan has serious issues with) and other unhealthy behaviors. Also, don't those managers realize that true love is pure, a healthy marriage is also pure. I'd be happy if one of my favorite idols got married, people reaching their pinnacle of love and/or happiness is heartwarming. |
Idols are married. Married to their fans. So of course any other relationship is viewed as impure and to be done away with. The sentimental attachment japanese fans have towards these idols is exactly of the same kind that otaku have versus moe characters. It's the same dynamics at play. Once you cater to a very tiny, rabid niche it's game over. You're at the mercy of your fans. Fans say jump, you jump. Fans say don't marry otherwise we won't support you anymore you do as they say. To be honest this whole dire situation is as much an effect of the fans as it is of the idol industry. The responsability lies on the 2 sides of the fence.
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Sunny milk
Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 695
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:28 pm
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Alright, if you want to bare it down to its dirty core, I will say it:
idols and certain seiyuu make a living of that very cult around idol purity, so they know exactly what they get themselves into and who their supporters are.
If they want to continue their career based around exactly that kind of fan obsession, they should play by the rules.
For all people spouting "retarded japanese" or "grow up already, how about you grow up and accept the not so bright reality about the industry instead of being hang up about it in a state of culture shock or something.
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lostrune
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 313
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:30 pm
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Hoppy800 wrote: | It's just the sad and pathetic "purity" standard in play, it needs to die as it breeds stalkers (something Japan has serious issues with) |
Where'd you hear that at? Japan has actually one of the lowest outputs of stalking. Japan in general's pretty crime free. In 2013 it was a surprise that stalking reports went up to 21,089. Meanwhile America reports 6.6 million stalker cases a year. You're much safer in Japan than in America. They even joke about it in the news and on TV shows in Japan how "Japanese don't know much about stalking compared to Americans". Ouch
Mr Adventure wrote: | So idols have to maintain kafabe in the eyes of the public or face betraying the whole institution, just like pro wrestlers? |
That's one way to put it Idols are like WWE. It's fabricated but people like it anyway. If you want to publicly date or marry, don't be an idol and just be a normal singer instead. Likewise if you want to fight for real, don't join the WWE
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Lynxikat
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:56 pm
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Sunny milk wrote: | Alright, if you want to bare it down to its dirty core, I will say it:
idols and certain seiyuu make a living of that very cult around idol purity, so they know exactly what they get themselves into and who their supporters are.
If they want to continue their career based around exactly that kind of fan obsession, they should play by the rules.
For all people spouting "retarded japanese" or "grow up already, how about you grow up and accept the not so bright reality about the industry instead of being hang up about it in a state of culture shock or something. |
I don't know, isn't that kind of like saying, "So what, some cultures are misogynist and we have to accept, grow up and stop whining."
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Sunny milk
Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 695
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:06 pm
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Are you really comparing a culture being misogynist to something that a person decides to be a part of?
I'm really shocked about that. Nobody forces a girl to be an idol.
If they want to become one, it comes with sacrifices, as everything else does.
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Hoppy800
Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 3331
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:15 pm
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lostrune wrote: |
Hoppy800 wrote: | It's just the sad and pathetic "purity" standard in play, it needs to die as it breeds stalkers (something Japan has serious issues with) |
Where'd you hear that at? Japan has actually one of the lowest outputs of stalking. Japan in general's pretty crime free. In 2013 it was a surprise that stalking reports went up to 21,089. Meanwhile America reports 6.6 million stalker cases a year. You're much safer in Japan than in America. They even joke about it in the news and on TV shows in Japan how "Japanese don't know much about stalking compared to Americans". Ouch
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I didn't compare anything to the US in that statement, also stalking is becoming a big problem in Japan, you just can't compare it to the US because of how large the US is and our high crime rates, 1 or 2 fatal stalking cases a month is seriously below average in any US town save for the smallest towns since we have much higher crime rates than Japan but in Japan, a low crime nation that 1 or 2 fatal stalking incidents is a bigger thing.
Also, while nobody can technically force a girl to be an idol, some parents pressure their daughters to no end to become one anyway.
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Touma
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:18 pm
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Lynxikat wrote: | I don't know, isn't that kind of like saying, "So what, some cultures are misogynist and we have to accept, grow up and stop whining." |
I do not think that it is like that at all.
This is about entertainment not culture. Being an idol is a profession, a job.
Maintaining a certain image is just part of the job.
Personally, I do not understand the obsessions that some fans have for idols. But there is a lot of entertainment that I just do not get.
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mdo7
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6360
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:19 pm
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Well, I've been doing some research on Japan's idol industry, I find their music industry and their idol industry a bit weird. The whole idol purity just makes it weird too (but then again, I remember reading in a book talking about The Beatles, John Lennon's marriage to Cynthia was kept secret until it was revealed on the Ed Sullivan Show because they wanted to make sure The Beatles didn't lose all their female fans). I read this Guardian article from 2005 (It's a good article even if it was published in 2005) regarding Japan's music industry and their idols. I'll quote this part of the article:
Chris Campion of The Guardian wrote: | But Morning Musume's fans are not run-of-the-mill teenyboppers. They are Japanese men in their late twenties and thirties, basking in the ardour of girls young enough to be their daughters.
What the girls themselves think of their drooling followers became something of a talking point in fan circles last year when audio footage was leaked of unguarded backstage comments made by Momusu's Rika Ishikawa (nicknamed 'Charmy' for her seemingly unshakeable beatific countenance). 'Look at them,' she shrieked, referring to fans in the front row. 'Grown-ups screaming like that! I can't believe it. So stupid!'
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Well I've been looking at dating scandal, you can read more about it by these links:
On no they didn't-Japanese actress Riisa Naka criticizes AKB48's "dehumanizing" dating ban
Lipstiq-Dating ban on idol group in Asia's music & Entertainment industry
I'll quote the second link:
Adrina of Lipstiq wrote: | In the American market, the entertainment companies were never strict on the dating rules and celebrities are allowed to be in a romantic relationship in whatever way they want.
However, in the Asian artist industry especially Korea and Japan, most of the entertainment companies set a list of strict rules in which the celebrities especially the idol groups must follow and some even had dating ban with a specific time frames.
In the Japanese culture, the love-ban law is to ensure the idol groups (both male and female) maintained their pure and innocent image that appeals to most fans, since the public would see them as ‘potential partners’. The idols who are committed to such a law have given up on relationships, freedom and their private lives to achieve their dreams and hope. Many referred the no-dating rules as a dehumanizing rule and the entertainment company has gone overboard on the rules.
In Korea however, the representatives from several entertainment companies explained they prefer the dating ban solely because of management problems. They further explained the management are responsible for protecting the idols from getting hurt from scandals, especially during the debut stage because they are still inexperience in handling themselves in scandals.
However, secret dating is common in the K-pop world, as a lot of idols have been seen going out together. Some of the entertainment companies would quickly deny the rumours and end the relationship before it gets out of control or leads to a sex scandal. This is because sex scandals might be the end of the idol’s career life and even if they stay in the entertainment industry, the image is already ruined and the idols will have a hard time struggling with her career.
As for now, the dating ban in the Korean entertainment industry isn’t as strict anymore, because a lot of idols have stood out about their relationships to the public.
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So yeah, I find the Japanese idols (particularly the female one) to be the most weird and just downright baffling when it comes to purity and all that "no dating" stuff.
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WatchforMoons7
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 529
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:28 pm
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Whats the big deeeeeeeeeeeeaal.....?!
Is dating or marriage wrong? "Betrayal"??
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Saku-dono
Joined: 14 Feb 2014
Posts: 801
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:41 pm
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Sicko fans... In the end, idols can't really be truly happy as long as there are fans who claims that idols are to remain pure. These fans' preference was too disgusting since they are restraining the very life of their idolized persona.
The sad life of an idol is to always wear a fake smile and get along with these kind of fans(not implying all fans are to be blamed) by preventing themselves to grasp their long-sought happiness.
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Sunny milk
Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 695
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:41 pm
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mdo7 wrote: |
Chris Campion of The Guardian wrote: | But Morning Musume's fans are not run-of-the-mill teenyboppers. They are Japanese men in their late twenties and thirties, basking in the ardour of girls young enough to be their daughters.
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I'm quite conflicted reading that.
Males being attracted or infatuated to youthful girls? What a surprise, this is some kind of breaking news!
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15470
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:50 pm
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I wish just one of these idols would say, "I'm sorry. Sorry that I have a life, and you otaku basement-dwelling losers don't, that is."
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mdo7
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6360
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:07 pm
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Sunny milk wrote: |
mdo7 wrote: |
Chris Campion of The Guardian wrote: | But Morning Musume's fans are not run-of-the-mill teenyboppers. They are Japanese men in their late twenties and thirties, basking in the ardour of girls young enough to be their daughters.
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I'm quite conflicted reading that.
Males being attracted or infatuated to youthful girls? What a surprise, this is some kind of breaking news! |
Well except it's a bit creepy from my view. Majority of these female J-idols group fanbases are otaku and men older then 30+, not the younger then 20 or teens.
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TheAncientOne
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1886
Location: USA (mid-south)
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:08 pm
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Lynxikat wrote: | I don't know, isn't that kind of like saying, "So what, some cultures are misogynist and we have to accept, grow up and stop whining." |
From the article:
Quote: | KAT-TUN singer Jin Akanishi was forced by his agency to leave the GTO: Great Teacher Onizuka live-action television series remake and had his tour cancelled after he got married without permission. |
It appears this is an equal opportunity issue.
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Eisenmann V
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
Posts: 212
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:14 pm
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Touma wrote: |
Lynxikat wrote: | I don't know, isn't that kind of like saying, "So what, some cultures are misogynist and we have to accept, grow up and stop whining." |
I do not think that it is like that at all.
This is about entertainment not culture. Being an idol is a profession, a job.
Maintaining a certain image is just part of the job.
Personally, I do not understand the obsessions that some fans have for idols. But there is a lot of entertainment that I just do not get. |
Yes, because submitting to people's possession fantasies is just part of a job.
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