Forum - View topicREVIEW: Attack on Titan episodes 1-5 (English Dub)
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2269 |
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Phew, okay, so your post was kind of a doozy, what with all the run-on sentences and what not, but I think I've got the gist of it. (For those who have not read all the way through the manga nor seen the show, spoilers abound. MAJOR SPOILERS. So read at your own risk. Seriously; these spoilers can ruin the show for you!! 1 and 5 are particularly spoilerly.) As I understand them, your main problems are: 1. The show shifts from being about humans vs. Titans to spoiler[humans and shifters vs. Titans and other shifters]. Fair enough. Some people dropped the Bleach manga when it shifted from urban fantasy to more straight-forward fantasy. I'd still say it's nigh impossible to play the humans vs. Titans card straight successfully all the way through the series given that spoiler[humanity was nearly wiped out before, and that was with far superior numbers] and that spoiler[technology is intentionally kept at around a Industrial Era level.] 2. Regarding the ineffectualness of how humans fight Titans and spoiler[how the walls were constructed]. The timeline of AoT is still extremely vague, even in the manga. It's difficult to tell exactly when anti-Titan combat methods were created, or even when spoiler[the walls and the city were built]. It's also implied that the mortality rate is so high, surviving 10 years fighting Titans is exceptional--this implies that if you don't get the methods right the first time, you won't get many more chances to try again. It's a very "do or die" mentality. But I'll hold off on judging that til we get a proper explanation. Then I can judge for myself whether that explanation is logical or just silly. 3. Eren doesn't go through an spoiler[existential crisis.] I think this is actually hinted at much more strongly in the anime than in the manga, especially considering the spoiler["those who fight monsters"] theme that dominates the last episodes. And we get very few direct thoughts from Eren regarding the matter. If I had to guess, though, I'd say he views his spoiler[ ability] as a means to an end and just another tool at his disposal. 4. You view this show (and possibly the manga, by extension) as being a piss-poor outlet for the mangaka's venting of his frustrations against his bullies, and that it hurts the show more than helps it. I've heard it said more often that the Titans were inspired by his inability to communicate with drunken individuals, but let's leave that aside for now. Let me preface this by saying I don't think you have to have undergone traumatic experiences to write good stories. It certainly helps--Koe no Katachi and that manga about the woman raising an autistic son certainly benefit from what feels like a strong personal connection. However, J.K. Rowling wrote Harry Potter quite successfully, and without having a deeply traumatic past (at least to my knowledge). But I feel AoT benefits from the mangaka incorporating those 'helpless' feelings. If nothing else, AoT is a very emotionally-driven show, and without those overpowering feelings, I think it would end up being a much flatter narrative. 5. This ties into the show's second arc, so yeah. Spoilers, yo. Eren's poorly foreshadowed spoiler[ability]. While I'd argue the specifics of his spoiler[ability] are vague, there are hints that *something* happened to him early on in the season, specifically with the spoiler[flashback about his father]. Moreover, I think once you realize spoiler[what the Female Titan is], I don't think it's unreasonable to realize that the same concept also applies to spoiler[the Armored and Colossal Titan]. I certainly figured that part out for myself based on spoiler[the appearances and abilities of Eren and the Female Titan], so I feel like the show was already hinting at that power, but in such a way that you had to sit and think about it first. EDIT: Edited to make the spoilers less spoilery, just in case. |
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Anthony.P
Posts: 52 |
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Too late, I already saw it before it got edited. 
I was debating on watching it or not and now I'm not sure...how big of a twist was it regarding the spoiler[one guy being a titan]? |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2269 |
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It's a pretty big twist, unfortunately. However, I also had that twist spoiled for me (via the dumb blurbs on the freaking books!), but I still found the show enjoyable. So, it's a shame, but it's kind of a minor point in the grand scheme of enjoyment. ^^b EDIT: Well, let me be more specific. This particular twist? Comes on pretty early in the season, like episode 7 or 8 (or maybe 9?). So out of 26 episodes, I didn't think it was a big enough spoiler to ruin my enjoyment of the show. It's not like it's an ending spoiler or anything. Last edited by whiskeyii on Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5936 Location: Virginia, United States |
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It is dangerous for people who don't want the show spoiled to read the forum comments anyway. Because what happens in the show is going to be spoiled in the forum comments somewhere. When people talk about a show, they are going to talk and argue about it, and details will be spilled.
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Anthony.P
Posts: 52 |
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Ah, so it's like in Gurren Lagann when spoiler[ Kamiya dies early on ]. I got that spoiled too and that show's still one of my all-time favorites, so this one shouldn't be too bad then.
Yeah, I gotcha. I was really interested though in what the review said about the dub reversioning of the script (an Achilles heel in quite a number of FUNi dubs for me) and thought I'd gauge some fan opinions to decide on which version to watch. Guess I was asking for it digging that deep into the thread, but eh. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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That is true if you are reading a discussion thread about the show in the Anime forum, but this is supposed to be a thread about the review in the Talkback forum. A review is intended for people who have not yet seen the show. A discussion about the review should be safe for people who have not seen the show. I must admit that this is one of my pet peeves. I usually do not read threads about reviews of shows that are of interest to me because I expect this to happen, but I gave up on Attack on Titan very early in the manga so I took a chance on this thread, expecting spoilers, just to see if anybody had something to say that might change my mind about watching the show. |
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Gasero
 Posts: 939 Location: USA |
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It is a spoiler, but I don't really see it that way since it is so integral to the overall plot that it would be difficult not to mention that. Besides, it is pretty easy to see it coming once things start going bad for the protagonists. spoiler[They were getting defeated so easily that my first thought was "some of these humans better be titans cause I don't see how this will ever go well."] |
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Touma
Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I do not see that as a spoiler either, but I guess that some people might. I imagine that one of the difficult things about writing a review is deciding how much you can reveal to support your opinions without spoiling the show for people.
I agree with that. Even though I did not read much of the manga I could see very early that there would have to be a major change in the balance of power. What you said under the spoiler tags was my first thought. |
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bs3311
 Posts: 416 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I was viewing this on my PS Vita. Yet I grabbed my laptop to comment due to how touched I am from this comment since rarely, anyone has argued or debated with me with sincere yet optamistic points. 
So I'm just commenting for the sake of speaking whats on my mind. Of course I was a bit deep on dmt42. But that was mostly due to his post with, "no and no." Or saying the plot twist was so deep and such a game changer in EVERYONE's eyes.Where in my eyes from his comment, sounded like a natural threat in saying my points are comepletely wrong and have no points to back up and therefore should be ignored by the community along with anyone else who agrees with these ideas. The biggest flaw that I will always admit. Which I have done before in the forums along with Youtube. Is that I keep comparing or bashing this show against Berserk. I saw the first couple episodes with no expectations and hype. But I was so glad this was having some of the same aspects in Berserk. The interesting trio when togethor like in Berserk. The overpowering Titans as monsters like in Berserk. The symphonic yet electronic music like in Berserk. And the possabilities that the world building would be like in Berserk. Etc. But after the plot twist, it lacked the story and characters that could be adored like in Berserk IMO. The trio was constantly seperated leaving them tasteless without the amazing interaction. The titans still being shraped around in mystery, and even with spoiler[the titan shifters] which seems to be a pull to bring similarity with the Apostles since they are monsters yet human with backstory. And the music was being stale and reused for 3 memorable tracks out of 20+ compared to Susumu Hirasawa's 7 memorable tracks out of 7. And the only settings memorable IMO are inside the walls, yet its so cramed and small instead of feeling like an acutal huge world. But the author never develops anything outside the wall except for a shack or 2. On scale, the wall area is vast. But its huge of empty space instead of landmarks mentionable, unlike Berserk with the land of Midland and the towering castle of Doldrey, the devil elf garden, and the Tower of Conviction. Yet with all the cons I give, I can still enjoy the show. There are memorable characters like Armin, Jean, and Erwin. With great action, spoiler[even in the titan vs shifter titan fights]. And the setting is still neat. AND I WANNA HEAR DAVID MATRANGA VOICE BERTHOLT FURTHER ALONG THE STORY! I kinda compare it to my loveable enjoyment of H.O.T.D. And my view on this can change when reading more of the manga or viewing the 2nd season. But I want Eren to actually delve into that spoiler[existienal crisis]. Without it, while just using the power whenever he wants as a tool. It just makes him feel like a more stagnated protagonist IMO. Is he happy on using it? Sad? Angry? He needs to develop on that. Like with Jean being pissed off at him with his failings. Like what I feel when Eren flops. Yet the fanbase says this anime deserves every amount of hype it made, but where is the line when hype also gives the sign of quality instead of being something to public standards of michael bay junk? The only reason is to say, "its cool compared to other things, so it deserves it." Which is basically what people viewed from SAO. Which was a show to pull emotions. Same as AoT.
I feel unsure about that though. Incorprating trauma from bullies due to helplessness into a story with humanity being bullied by japanese/greek like monsters without human intelect; while overall trying to bring the helplessness into account feels jarring. Bullies are people just like you and me. But if a person trys to take advantage of you, you either ask someone for help or just fight back. Titans in this show are like giant zombies likely being controlled by someone. That seems a bit mean to view helplessness from human thinking bullies to brain dead titans hellbent to cause misery. There should be no comparison. And that helplessness can turn to boredom if you lose, time and time again. To have a show feel immersive to the viewer, decisions that the characters make should also be something the audiences views. Staring from afar at the carnage in fear maybe one persons view, but there might be 10 others that want to go hammey. Sure the audiences viewpoint may fail if one of the characters tries and fails, but with both the audiences and the characters independant decisions all failing time after time again. Then the viewer is just going to feel brain dead like a titan for some KFC. And will just feel like watching the story for nothing than for viewing instead of feeling like your watching a show as someone inside a rebel group like the X-Men, a group of friends in a slice of life or drama like From the New World, or The Band of the Hawk, maybe even Gut's new team. The material is Shonnen, meaning a genre for teens. Teens are always preaching that times should change or new generations will take over. Maybe the story could have been that. My View of What AOT Should Have Been: A world exploring grand tale in that the Survey corps and all the characters we see at camp travel and recon through an apocalyptic world being pushed to the brink by the titans. We learn about the characters backstories on how these people joined along with backstory and reason for fighting. While they travel to distant towns hidden from titan sight, or even finding new ways to defeat or prevent titans from invading. While learning there culture before and meeting new characters ravaged or changed by the titans. Allowing the Survey Corps to head back to the walls with information on new tactics and ways to stop the titans. All with the help of a group of Teens wishing for change against adults that lived and saw the tragic view of the titans so much, that they want nothing involved with them or any way to destory them besides just survive behind the walls. I have been rambling WAY to long now. Overall, I can enjoy AoT. But when I hear someone say, "its a flawless masterpiece, it can shit on Berserk or any other old anime for all I care!" Then the gloves come off for some GIGANTOMAKHIA TYPE BEATDOWN!!! 
Could you at least explain in terms of sentence structure and such. Cause I'm confused on what I've done except for the last paragraph I done where I was just annoyed with the twist that was supposed to be considered spoilers yet its something not advertised or mentioned in advertisement and its something that is shown even earlier than the 13+ episode mark. Anyway, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."[/b] |
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acetatsujin
Posts: 208 |
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I own all 9 volumes of the BD.
Not interested in the English Dubs or the localized version. My whole room re-organized as of yesterday. The 9 BD Volumes is towards the bottom. Looking forward to S2. Sales were very high so it would be a mistake not to make a S2.  And chapter 56 of the manga is so awesome!
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jr240483
 Posts: 4456 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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unless its part of the companies standard and practices, so its possible it wont be but if it does dictate that it needs to be, then be assured it will be edited. also will have to assume that the OP / ED will be edited since TOM said on those short tumblr Q&A that some of them wont be in full openings and endings cause of time constraints so i wasnt misstating when i mean that the series might get severely edited. |
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ShatteredWorld
 Posts: 265 Location: ATL |
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I doubt much of anything will get edited or censored. I don't know if you regularly watch Toonami or not, but the first show up ALWAYS gets full openings and endings. And since AoT will be the first show up in the new lineup...well...do the math. |
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Letthemeatraep
Posts: 161 |
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I remember watching this a couple of months ago for the first time and I was utterly glued to the show for the first 12-13 episodes. Really engrossing stuff.
The introduction of spoiler[the concept of transforming humans] completely ruined the whole thing though imo. The direction the show goes in after that is just so uninteresting compared to what it felt like it was going to be initially. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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^
Can't agree with that at all. That revelation established the realities that spoiler[the remaining humanity is not united after all, that Titans may, in fact be biological weapons, that Eren's dad apparently knew about some or all of this, and that there's a much bigger picture here than what we're seeing]. All of those are highly interesting points to me that I want to see answered, particularly how (major spoiler) spoiler[Annie can be cold-blooded enough to be involved in all of this; how must her people view those living within the walls for her to do things like what she does?] jr0904: Saying that a series is "severely edited" based only on the OP/ED not being intact is hyperbole. And while I think it's likely that the ED will be edited, I will be quite surprised if the OP is. SAO's and Blue Exorcist's OPs and EDs got edited because, frankly, none of them are stand-outs or especially impactful. That's not the case with AoT's OP, which, as I said before, is a superior advertisement for the series. bs3311: Your vision of the what the series should have been entirely changes what it is (a survivor story) into something else (an adventure story). Although I will quibble about how exactly they handled certain parts, the series wouldn't have even close to the same impact as an adventure story. And concerning your question about the spoiler tag use, I can't get into that without talking about the spoilers. Essentially, though, if you're spoiler-tagging something but then talking about it in such detail afterwards that what you put in the spoiler tags is abundantly obvious (which you did more than once in the original post) then you have rendered the spoiler tags useless. And for all, the revelation that spoiler[humans can turn into titans] is a major spoiler because 1. it was a shocking revelation at the time it came out and 2. the series can most definitely be discussed in general terms without mentioning it. That's not quite the same case with something like, say, Madoka Magica, where not revealing that spoiler[some of the magical girls die] dramatically hinders any discussion about the series. |
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bs3311
Posts: 416 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Thats mostly what a, "anyones visions of a show should have been." is. Something different from the mentioned material. The survivor story overtime becomes boring. Over and over again they fail with the only success in one episode in the second half with incredibley slow pacing. Sure, I want the characters to be endangered and losing. Like the impending odds in Saving Private Ryan. But this takes it the wrong way. I bet you wrong though. People were hooked since the first epsiode, already on the leash of the author. So they would be okay with whatever they dish out to the audience. Even if it had a lower fanbase. IMO, my changes would at least give this show the inspiration and heart that other shonnen shows have but with a different twist on the plot. Not from some usptart author who vents his anger out in a story without rationality. I apalogize if I sound like a snob, but with all the action of what little there is are inside the walls. Yet the only time they are outside is rendered with slow pacing yet the characters still being stale. IMO, I just think it deserves a rewrite. Plus, your ending sentence on your first paragraph addressing me seemed offensive. Besides, my concept was with both ideas. Humanity is surviving, but the only way to learn more about the titans via who they are or how to find new ways to kill them is to travel outside the walls, leading to adventure while the author can use the expansion of world building. While the tension and surviving could be due to the danger of being outside the walls.
Is the audience supposed to feel uncertainty that the enemies view of attacking them inside the walls as a counter to what humans inside the city did to be sympathectic and that they should reconsider what humanity inside the walls did before the wall was built? Unless this is From the New World, Berserk, or even Majestic Prince. Then IMO no. We viewed the side of the problem humans are facing for so long, that pulling a sympathetic antagonist is way too late in the game given the amount of supposed, "emmotional fuel." this show is pumping. Annie considered by the fans along with friends of mine are amused with her on just being a bitch. spoiler[No emotional hatred like other villians, just laughable enjoyment on her being bad. Like the Terminator.The given flashback does not even explain anything, similar to Eren's early flashback. And Annie's was not even first person like Eren's, a illusion giving the view that his/her brain must be hazzy from that event. People view this as a similar triat to Eren's backstory on getting the powers, yet hers is in 3rd person with an old man we learn nothing about.] spoiler[The supposed villians viewing the people inside the walls are thinking just like a plot pulled 2nd rate god hand IMO. They believe there moral is the sole way to follow yet with the only excuse is to be evil because one side telling them, "dude, your side is not going to deliver the results we see in this buisness." Yet there response is, "Humanity cannot understand us, we must be evil."] spoiler[Yet THE GOD HAND, though with the concept pulled from an early chapter due to, "Giving to much information on the world concept." Actually has a reasonable excuse with the Idea of Evil, a god/demonic like being created by humanties collective unconciousness to judge what unhappiness happens to who in a concept called, "fate."] spoiler[Viewing them as biological weapons has been done with before. With the moral being, "humanity should not mess with gods work." Or, "science technology affecting bionics with War, can evolve into more death."] Sure, I'm okay with reused concepts, morals, and villians. But I want intersting characters along with a compelling story. But after the early episodes of AoT, it lost all it had to be the next FMAB, Berserk, NGE, FTNW, Ef, LOTGH, etc. IMO.
The general audience IMO, is going to hear it as a bunch of asians yelling, though understand what I typed is a racist statement. But its so far the generic stereotype for the public in the good ol USA of music not with english autotunes or bang rape with drug sex screaming, "baby, ooooohhhhhhhhRight." Deadman Wonderland's opening was great advertising. Unless we can get the AoT opening instrumental, now that would be good enough. And I'm starting to think this topic is going off a cliff. Allow me to change that, This might wobble a bit like Sentai's dub of Medaka Box. 
Last edited by bs3311 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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