Forum - View topicNEWS: CLAMP profile/interview in today's New York Times
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Wow, doesn't sound condescending to me at all. Maybe it's because it sounds like dozens of similar comments by Japanese manga & anime creators who seem to have a hard time thinking anyone outside of Japan can like their work. Dozens of comments that the work is made for Japan first & if other countries like it, great. Not everyone has the huge ego Americans have that everything & anything they do should be loved by the world. You like what you like. We all do. I figured out a LONG time ago that one can appreciate the art an artist makes no matter what kind of a jerk the artist is. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15479 |
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CCS:
The difference between CLAMP's comments and those of other artists is the other artists aren't implying that American fans are dense. The other artists also come off more humble when they make it clear that their only concerns are whether Americans will appreciate some of the "in-jokes" meant for Japanese audiences.
Not if that artist is Michael Richards. 
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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No, when I say an artist can be a jerk, I speak of John Lennon who, according to various bios in his Beatles days was rather vicious. Stories in one bio that he made jokes about "cripples" in his early days as a Beatle, & how he behaved while separated from Yoko Ono in the early 70's (wearing a feminine pad on his head coming out of a men's room in a restaurant).
Good songs-don't have to like the man. And I was all of 14 when I learned that. Which is why I also know I don't have to like my co-workers, I just have to do my job. You don't like Clamp. You're taking a line that came thru an interpreter & using it as you choose. I still don't see it as negative. I've thought the same way about some of Yu Watase's little side columns in her manga, but my issues with her work are more how she wastes bishies like there's no tomorrow. And I've also thought the same about some of the animators when they comment how Japanese a title is & they can't see others relating to it. I don't really see it as arrogant, but more part of their isolation from everyone else. Their reality is different as seen by the whole hikikomori thing which apparently doesn't have an exact corrolation to behavior in any other society. And my reality in SoCal may be different from yours depending on where you live. I grew up here so I can't relate to the concept of living somewhere where one doesn't see someone of a different race on a daily basis, but I know there are very homogenous communities where this happens. Americans are arrogant. Interestingly enough, Japan is also on the arrogant side (I've heard the French are, but don't really know. I took German in high school. Ok, I suppose the British are also in their way, or maybe just proper). Japan also has that "center of the universe" mentality-particularly if one goes into the older stuff no one ever expected to be seen/read by anytyhing other than a Japanese audience. It really reminds me of the stuff I grew up watching in the '60's where the US of A was just always better than everyone. I work with a lot of Asians-mostly Filipinos, & some are quite negative toward Japan. I recall reading Japan has cause some fuss in their area over their refusal to fully acknowledge their attrocities during WWII. Just like the US government likes to whitewash. Actually, I think it's part of politician DNA. |
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sabriyahm
 Posts: 291 Location: Georgia |
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I am pleased to see an article on any manga or anime in something like NYT's.
That said I have always been amazed at the success of CLAMP. They have never made a manga (and there has never been an anime adaptation of their work) that I have liked even a little. Alot of their work I loathe. It seems totally geared to the young girl crowd. I guess I am too old to appreciate it. FYI-after 7 days all online NYT's articles will go in archives. At that point you must be a paid subscriber to their online edition to view it. I am but the rest of you probably aren't so read it now while you can. |
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megumi's guy
Posts: 67 Location: Murfreesboro, Tennessee |
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Yes, Tsubasa Chonicles will be 78 episodes (watch the end of episode 52). I was able to look at the article without logging on. I thought it was interesting that they had to present their ideas for approval. I suspect CLAMP can do pretty much whatever they want.
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GATSU
Posts: 15479 |
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CCS:
He was a rock star. They tend to act like idiots.
True. It might mean something on a different level in Japanese. But judging by my interpretation of them at AX(mostly through a second-hand source) they seem to be very high-maintenance.
I like how you used a statement which automatically assumed something about me. But you know what they say about assuming. If you want to know, I live near Fairfax High School, and went to L.A.C.E.S. and Cal State Northridge, both of which have their fair share of everyone under the rainbow.
Tom Cruise was arrogant, too, and look what it cost him. All I'm saying is respect the fans. sabriya:
It doesn't bother me that their work's for young girls, but they just don't feel that original to me. It's as if they're using Gainax's playbook. |
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Strephon
Posts: 177 |
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Saying "Can they relate to the characters?" doesn't imply denseness. Relating to something is an emotional trait, not an intellectual one (reiterating the comment about "touching their hearts"). |
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Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
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Lix
 Posts: 31 Location: All the wrong places... |
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I think this statement is too generalizing. It would be better to say that Americans tend to be more arrogant than people from other nations. That would allow for the many obvious exceptions. However, I believe it's appropriate to point out that all first world nations, including Japan, have this trait in common. It's not difficult to see why: wealth, fame, and power are the three things that can lead to arrogance (intellect/knowledge would be another, but I would rather group that under power for the sake of this discussion). The people of third world nations are the ones who tend to be least arrogant because they are lacking in these three, and first world nations, obviously, have the greatest abundancy of each, and thus the highest tendency for egotism. I would have to further conclude, or at least theorize, that America is the country filled with the most arrogance since it has the lion's share of wealth, fame, and power in the world. As for Japan...not so much, but it's still up there. And GATSU, I fail to see how CLAMP is being truly arrogant. Maybe their overseas fame has gone to their heads a bit, but, at least right now, it certainly isn't enough to be seriously distraught over. And they aren't implying anything bad about Americans. That's just you reading into it too much. 
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Then why are you complaining about a fact you already know? Many entertainers, not just rock stars, live an isolated life so fr removed from reality it isn't funny. If one believes those little side columns they write, the life of a manga-ka is slaving away churning out pages while their evil editors crack the whip, laughing maniacally. Look at what they write. I swear Law of Ueki came out of a drinking bout where they started naming the most ridiculous abilities on the planet "the power to turn my forehead into diamond while my hand is in my pocket" How much saki does it take to get "the power to turn cotton towels into iron" or "the power to turn water into fire in my mouth"? And then one reads the author notes in Zatch Bell 5 where he washes his hands with diet coke because he can't believe there's noi calories & figures his hands will be sticky. They live in a totally different world than even the rest of Japan.
Hmmm. I said "may be" didn't I? "depending on where you live", didn't I? And my paranoid schizophrenic nephew-in-law doesn't like to visit SoCal because there aren't enough white folk-Mexicans in particular bring out his paranoia for some reason, so he prefers his little corner of Oregon. And considering Japan is also a place where one can probably, in some parts at least, go a day or more between live sightings of different races, they do come from a different place than a more diversified population. I really hope the average manga-ka is stretching it a bit with their tales of doing nothing but sleep, eat, make manga, play video games, rinse, repeat which sounds just like those shut-ins, And it leads to an very different reality from those of us who get up, go to work, deal with other people, etc.
But if you follow their stuff from RG Veda, there is a similarity, just like there is a similarity in Rumiko Takahashi's work. I love their humor-Clamp School Defenders is probably my fav over CCS simply because it's shorter & there are so many in jokes like the leads threatening a letter campaign to Clamp because they are losing space to their boss(support character) & the villain. |
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JTtheBrick
Posts: 99 |
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I just love "Americans are....." comments. Unless you've met with every single person in America, I don't buy that generalizing sh*t.
Now on topic, I read it as just a simple thought what others think of their work, in this case American fans. Whether they are arrogant or not is not up to me to judge, I don't know them personally so I'll just stick to what I know and that is they are a successful team of artists. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I don't read the comment as condescending (altho I grant it COULD read that way). Consider the full quote:
“For some series, we do consider the international audience,” Ms. Ohkawa said. “But we wonder, when American girls read our manga, do the stories touch their hearts? Can they relate to the characters?” I think of the statement as akin to a situation where you might write a story for a daughter or niece. Then the story gets distributed to many girls and I'd think you couldn't help but wonder if those other girls relate to the story as you would hope your daughter/niece did. The other girls are not the target of your story, but that doesn't mean they CAN'T relate, but you wonder if they do. I think it's more a mixture of fascination and curiosity, rather than contempt or arrogance, like finding out a hundred people read your Livejournal when you thought it was just a few friends. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Every nation has a sterotype & Americans are often loud, brash, arrogant. Not a bad thing, considering our past-forging West into the unknown. A co-worker who loved to take various tours every year said the overall attitude toward us in Europe was we're like spoiled children. At least we DO. I get so frustraitied with Japanese characters that just stand there doing nothing (Gantz-if they shot half as often as they threatened to, more of the team would survive). No, I haven't met every American. I haven't met everyone in SOCal. And in my job in law enforcement, I have a lot of jaded co-workers who see the worst in everyone which is just sad on the juvenile side, but I know everyone's different even when half the people I talk to in any given day are lying thru their teeth to me.
That said. that whole reaching out above & beyond what appeals to the people in one's own country is the diff between something being a local hit & something being popular worldwide. In America alone because of our size & population, something can be huge in one state & go over like a lead balloon in another & vice versa. So our authors think about writing for a world audience? Most interviews I've read American authors say they write what they enjoy writing. Maybe they do think about it & just won't admit it. It doesn't really matter. It is a comment one sees much more often from Japanese creators because they seem to have more of a sense of isolation from the world. They often seem amazed & honored people outside Japan like their stuff. It may actually show they are way more aware than the average American that they realize there is a difference in the audiences. |
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Aki Ameko
 Posts: 88 Location: Iowa, USA |
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GATSU
Posts: 15479 |
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Well from what I heard, autographs would only be given away during a raffle, and one of the lucky recipients had to hold his memento over a divider, because they didn't even want to shake his hand or greet him. And another one of the members of the group demanded that their bottled water be a special expensive import brand.
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