Forum - View topicGAME: Dragon's Crown
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Aldora07
Posts: 46 |
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Man I am definitely going to get this game!!!
 I grew up on brawlers like Streets of Rage and Golden Axe, so it is always good to see games like this being made and vanillaware's games have some of the prettiest art and females. Regardless of the game I would probably by this just for the sorceress alone. She is so fine!!!!! 
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Kakugo
Posts: 163 |
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Hey, at least Aldora admits liking boobies for boobies' sake. Better than trying to find some ulterior justification or arguing against its detractors to feel better about liking shapely ladies.
Fence: What, is it wrong that I thought Kamitani's "Don't like Cheesecake? Here, have Beefcake!" reply to Kotaku's snarky headline was one of the funniest things I've seen in ages? I honestly wish more artists - more unique talents who go out of their way to not regurgitate the same crap everyone else is investing in - would tell their detractors to f*** off every now and again. Besides, Kamitani had already drawn the Dwarf Pile sketch of his own volition in an attempt to sell the game in different ways than it's currently being pitched to the market at large - it's clear he's interested in doing something besides the stuff his publishers know will draw eyes (ie: The Sorceress). With that in mind, I can see him being a bit sore that people are snarking and chiding what little of his work he can see realized in the public eye. (And yes, Vanillaware's designs are over the top, even inside the already exaggerated scope of game character art. If they weren't, nobody would be talking about Dragon's Crown to start with.) Chicken: You're right, the bigger market is men and women. If you want to look at the market in absolute terms, the "big market" is stuff like Angry Birds and Peggle, to which the concepts of gender are meaningless anyway. The only major exception to this is AMERICA, F**K YEAH! THE FPS 7.3, which is akin to "gaming" what Pokemon and Dragon Ball are to "anime" - they exist in the same medium, but the scope and presence in the mainstream is so dramatically personified they really aren't in the same market anymore. The market for a retro arcade-brawler was probably a drop in the bucket to start with, and the eye-catching, hyper-sexualized art style for Dragon's Crown is a big selling point for it. Would having toned the busty ladies splaying their legs have actually brought in gamers who are otherwise upset about the aesthetics of the game? Or would it merely have made the title less interesting to an audience not already invested in beat 'em up games? To put this another way: Would the Neptunia series still be popular - popular enough to get its own damned TV show - if the cast were switched to entirely male characters? Would Disgaea still have an audience if it was retooled to look more like League of Legends? Would the Dynasty Warrior franchise increase sales if it traded in stylized bishounen for hulking barbarians? I can't say for certain, but I imagine the visuals - the tone, the aesthetics in general - for these games are, themselves, a major selling point. I won't argue that Dragon's Crown is firmly entrenched in the hyper-sexualized world of Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo and Luis Rojo; that's kind of the whole point, isn't it? From what most people are saying, it's the only point: It's a visually delicious game in which you smash skeletons in the face. Then you punch more skeletons. Then fish-men. Then centaurs. Rinse, repeat. The art is the start and end of the joke, more a tantalizing excuse to revive a game style in which the graphics were often the least important aspect. I'm sure it'd be fun without the visual style, but it'd be a whole lot less appealing, too. That's not to say that video games shouldn't have a wider variety of characters. The number of well written, nuanced, and exciting characters in games - regardless of race, gender, age or anything else - really isn't all that great. I just don't see how Vanillaware toning anything down in a game where the style is the appeal will change the marketplace, much less encourage others to do so. For what it's worth, Tomb Raider might not be the major flop its' press has largely made it out to be - they're already talking Next Gen sequel. It's been suggested that many "original" AAA titles* are essentially loss-leaders because sequels can re-use the same game assets at a fraction of the overall cost, and tend to sell better than original titles anyway. Square Enix just expected it to sell CoD numbers on what's now (ironically enough) an M-rated version of Uncharted, because... reasons? I guess? Hell, it sold about as many copies than The Last of Us, and Sony seemed fine with those numbers. (Also, The Last of Us has recently been accused of being a game full of Damsel in Distress scenarios. Rock, meet hard place.) * Yeah, it's technically a reboot, but it's "original" from a mechanics and assets perspective. |
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Jave
 Posts: 198 |
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Japanese devs seem to do that quite often. 
American devs not so much unfortunately. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14813 |
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Oh c'mon, we do that to Hollywood all the time! 
That's why Flowers of Evil happens. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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I haven't watched a new movie from Hollywood in 2 years. The movies i have watched are either British, French, Italian or Japanese origin. If i simply don't like something I flat out refuse to even watch it, but I don't care if others enjoy movies like Grown Ups 2 or American Reunion...guhh
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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If a game is uninteresting to someone because there's not women splayed about showing off their taints and tits....well, then, I don't want that person as a part of gaming fandom. The problem here is that that person is a part of gaming fandom, and has far too many peers. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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First, that NOT what he or anyone else is saying. We are saying that a game can be fun with boobs, that it can be used as an attention grabber (although in this case, this was part of its artistic vision from the beginning) and even bad publicity is better than no publicity; NOT that a game must have boobs to be fun. Second, it seems like you cannot separate the personal and the political. You think the market must be a certain way, that it cannot accommodate different players. Most of the Anglo market is already biased towards your type of view anyways! Every single mainstream reviewer is either a true believer like ANN's Todd and bashes this aspect of the game, or is too afraid to be politically incorrect. As I have already mentioned, there's already a market for you, even the indie projects that even directly addresses the issue. But of course, you cannot be satisfied with that, because as you said, you and other social "progressives" think it is the existence of other people and of other values that is problem! A peaceful coexistence would not be possible. You should realize that It cuts both ways--where folks at the receiving end of the hate think it is your type of attitude that is actually harmful. |
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kakitamike
 Posts: 183 Location: Akron, OH |
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Of all the people that would support a discussion, I thought for sure the site editor would be one of them. The poster I quoted made a comment and then just expects us to divine from his mind what he finds offensive. He doesn't say what offends him. He doesn't say how they could fix it. He essentially says I'm offended , because reasons. I'm asking him to say something to how he came to his conclusions. I don't find a difference in the images. They're both showing duress. Given the female's outfit, I don't know what pose he wants her in so he's less offended by it. She's sorta on her back. The dwarf is bending over. WHy bother having a conversation. Because reasons, good enough for Zac. Why talk about it. |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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I think it's pretty obvious what the difference is. The Drawf just looks down, but not out. He just looks like he's resting, out of breath.
While the girl is basically in rape position. Complete with spread legs. |
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kakitamike
Posts: 183 Location: Akron, OH |
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So legs spread while bent over, okay. Legs spread while sitting, not okay. The rape position? Seriously? I googled that expecting some back up or article or something to support that random comment, but nothing.
Om my god, that dwarf is bent over with his legs apart, it's the prison rape position. No yeah, that sounds silly to me to. EDIT: I mean, at the end of the day, people are going to see what they want to see. I'm just surprised that asking someone to explain what they see is a call for getting trolled, by the editor no less. Apparently I should just look for an echo chamber of people to circle jerk with instead of trying to engage in discussion to understand where someone else is coming from. |
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KoujiTamino
 Posts: 163 Location: Tacoma, WA, USA |
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The Sorceress just looks silly and helpless.
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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If you can't see the obvious then we're not going to explain it to you. It's like someone walking in halfway through a movie and wondering loudly what's going on. |
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Kakugo
Posts: 163 |
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I know Suda51 is anything but shy - what other fun stories have I been missing?
I'm certainly amused by Dragon's Crown and its tasteless sense of humor, but that's not the defining point of interest. I always liked Final Fight and Streets of Rage as a kid, and had plenty of fun with the Scott Pilgrim game when that came out a couple years ago. It's not that the game us "uninteresting" without it - merely that it's added another thing to be interested in, be it the unique, atypical visual style... or the tits that walk hand-in. I stand by my guess that Dragon's Crown would have sold fewer copies had it taken a less ridiculous/sexualized art style. I'd certainly invite any developer to release another medieval beat 'em up in a different style and prove me wrong, though!
Last edited by Kakugo on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:56 am; edited 2 times in total |
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kakitamike
Posts: 183 Location: Akron, OH |
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You're comparing not understanding how a person thinks to walking in halfway into a movie? See, I can say something like false equivalency and if you don't know what it means, or understand, you can at least google it, because it's a real thing, and then you can walk away and at least learn something new from it, even if you still don't agree. If I missed half the movie, link me to something I can read to catch up. Send me to the mind of Dave Riley for the other half of his asked question. |
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Animehermit
Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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It's not our job to explain your willful ignorance. That's where the comparison comes from. |
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