Forum - View topic[OT] Sorry, but a little Kanji help, please.
|
|
| Author | Message | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Webki
 Posts: 299 Location: Albany, NY |
|
|||||||||
|
I'm studying kanji at the moment, and I just came across something that doesn't make sense... to me at least.
If anyone is familiar with James W. Heisig, I am currently using his book (Remembering the Kanji I) to study. In Lesson 2, he gives a character (旦) and uses the keyword "Nightbreak." Then he proceeds to give give explanation for it:
Now this explanation makes it sounding like this kanji means "morning," does it not? However, my kanji dictionary doesn't not have this listed for morning. So, I went to his flash cards to find the reading. It came up in katakana: タン. So then I looked this up ("tan") but did not find anything even close to morning. So then I tried looking for night or night break. But alas, nothing was to be found there, either. Finally, I opened up my IME and changed it to katakana. I opened up word and typed タン, hit the spacebar twice and scrolled down. The 8th choice was, in fact 旦, which now makes me wonder why I can't find the real meaning for this kanji, since night break is not a real thing and it doesn't show under "morning." So, one again, sorry for posting this here, but it does relate Japanese at least. And I post it here because I know there are people here (abunai, dormcat, maybe fighterholic) who will probably know the answer. So, I hope someone can help me unravel this mystery. *EDIT* As a last resort I tried to use Babel Fish... however, it just gave me the kanji in the translation box. Real helpful, eh? |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
ryujin jakka
 Posts: 156 Location: Kansas City, Missouri |
|
|||||||||
|
I have been having the same problem. I cannot find it any were in any of my Dictionary's. This is a question that has plauged me for a while now, Though I had never thought of asking here. Good Idea!
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Webki
Posts: 299 Location: Albany, NY |
|
|||||||||
|
Yeah, it's extremely irritating. Thankfully, I don't recall it being a very common kanji that I see all the time on Japanese websites. However, for it to be in the book means it is a General Use Kanji. So, I would definitely like to know the real meaning.
Not to mention I just encountered the character for morning (朝), therefore ruling out my thought that 旦 meant morning. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
ryujin jakka
Posts: 156 Location: Kansas City, Missouri |
|
|||||||||
|
As soon as I start my college classes on it I hope it will go alot faster. Trying to teach yourself from a book can be extreamly flustering. I can't recall how many times I have gone bezerk, and Thrown things across the room. It is like Algebra at times.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||||||||
Look at it iconically. 旦 = The moment when the sun (日) emerges from the horizon. It's one of those indicative (指事) characters. Don't stick to the concept of "-break" too much. It confuses you. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
SharinganEyes92
 Posts: 816 |
|
|||||||||
True, it is hard trying to teach yourself Japanese with a book. I've been learning since last Spring, but I haven't been able to keep up (AP Bio summer homework is a b!+ch!). However, I'm not trying to learn Kanji at this point. I'm learning through the Romanji. You're lucky that you'll be able to take it in college, though. I have to wait 4 more years 'til that can happen for me. 
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
|
|||||||||
|
Hmm...phlegm? Lol. (Sorry, I looked "tan" up and it said it was phlegm).
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Webki
Posts: 299 Location: Albany, NY |
|
|||||||||
So is that what the character literally means? The moment the sun emerges from the horizon? That's how Heisig kind of describes it; however, the moment the sun emerges from the horizon would be morning, would it not? Therefore, what does the word actually translate to? Or, by you saying it is an indicitive character, you mean that it doesn't have a real word, instead it is just one of those kanji that conveys a concept? Hmm, I guess I can accept that.
I know exactly what you mean. I will start my Japanese classes on September 5th. So, I'm hoping it goes better from that point on. My academic plan let's me take all my 3rd year classes in Japan, as long as I have the GPA. I'm hoping after that year I'll be quite fluent with speaking the language, if not reading and writing it as well. (Note: Not absolute proficiency, but enough to say... read a light novel or hold a conversation or watch an anime).
I wish I started when I was your age. I've been on and off with the language since the 5th grade, but I've never made any progress until this past year. However, I don't mean to turn this into a language learning discussion, but I will give some advice: Learn kana. Romaji is a terrible way to learn the language. It will eventually confuse the hell out of you once you get far enough. I recommend picking up James W. Heisig's book about hiragana and katakana (here) and then using a book that teaches with kana (such as Japanese for Busy People Volume I KANA version), to learn the language. You will thank me a lot later on. Plus, with that book I taught myself Hiragana in about 6 hours and Katakana in a little less... Just make sure to follow his instructions to the "t," as the expression goes.
Yeah, I did that too. It made zero sense to me. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||||||||
Even in English there are words like "twilight," "daybreak," "dawn," etc. to give more detailed descriptions for different moments. 旦 means the sun while emerging and immediately after clearing the horizon, so it's most similar to "daybreak" (or "nightbreak," whatever). "Morning" in English covers much longer -- till noon. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
RDespair
 Posts: 245 Location: California |
|
|||||||||
|
I've always thought of that character as meaning dawn. The fact that it sounds similar to dawn in Chinese makes it easy for me to remember that meaning.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
hayakunero
Posts: 61 Location: 日本 |
|
|||||||||
|
I rarely use 旦 so probably you don't have to learn the kanji.
旦日 means next day or next morning. 旦夕 means morning and night. 旦暮 means morning and night . 旦明 means daybreak, dawn. 旦那 means husband, master, mister. ぶっちゃけ、旦にこんな意味があるなんて知らなかった。あほやん、私。旦那くらいしか使ったことないし。 |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Webki
Posts: 299 Location: Albany, NY |
|
|||||||||
Thank you very much for clearing that all up. It was really bothering me not being able to find that in any dictionary. Also, thanks to everyone else who helped out. My mind is at rest now. 
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group