Forum - View topicHigh percentage of Ero Manga is Lolicon - Why?
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genman
Posts: 40 |
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I wanted this as a Talkback question related to the whole Lolicon bit. But that discussion has essentially degenerated. My question is a bit more focused: Why the high percentage of Lolicon in Japan?
"Lolicon" constitutes a good percentage of the ero manga published in Japan. If you do a quick search on the Mandarake Web Site http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/index.do there's about 1,200 "Hentai" manga titles (not doujinshi) and approximately 600 of them have the keyword Lolicon in them. So I'd guess around 50%. And I having bought a few ero manga, that of the remainder, about 30-40% are stories taking place at high schools or incestuous. The Doujinshi title count is about 5,200 titles. Just from the art and anime they cover, I'm guessing 10-20% are lolicon, if not more. If you go by anthologies such as "Hot Milk", they publish "lolicon" among other, more normal stories, probably at a rate of 2-3 stories an issue. Do you think this is representative? What percentage of the readers then are actually interested in exploiting real girls? The high percentage of it in anthologies (which cater to perhaps mainstream tates) might suggest most people read "lolicon" without being particularly offended. And possible they aren't particularly interested in little girls, except maybe for asthetic reasons.: Younger is cuter (kawaii), petite (chibi) and girlier (moe') is less intimidating. The "loli" style is perhaps an extension of how anime is drawn with large friendly eyes, etc. And given the increasing popularity of moe' style, it might be natural to simply make manga characters look increasing younger to fit the "little sister" archetype. I'm guessing what this all means, more or less, that little drawn girls getting exploited doesn't really correspond to any sort of desire to exploit actual children. The other argument would have to be that a large number of people buying adult manga want to have sex with little girls. Wikipedia, although not a fine source, points to an interesting study in regards to pedophilia:
Okay, maybe the numbers do add up. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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There is no way to know this, but probably pretty low.
I really have nothing to back this up, but I think loli is probably popular and not looked down on that much (at least not among those that read porn manga and the hardcore manga nd anime fans) because loli just takes the Japanese ideals for a good female to extremes. Compliant and submissive, innocent, looks up to the man for support. It's moe taken to an extreme. In addition to the personality aspects, the bodies of little girls reinforce those aspects. That's just my guess though. |
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Kagemusha
 Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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What you forgot to mention is that there's about 1200 hentai titles on that specific site, not in total. Lolicon is a growing market amoung otaku, so it makes sense that half of those are of that variety (since it was a keyword search and not a title-by-title examination, I'd question if that number is even accurate). I highly doubt half of all erotic manga in Japan could be classified as lolicon, even if many of them pertain to teenaged girls (most of whom are physically developed). Despite what Genshiken would have you believe, not all "normal" Japanese people loath drawn pornography, and there seems to be a good deal of normal, non-rape/bondage/insert-fetish pornography that sells.
As for the "lolicon is culterally accepted," I seriously doubt that, and everything I've read on the subject takes an opposite stance to what you suggested. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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I'm under the impression (from Ask John and Hey Answerman columns) that most Japanese aren't even aware of a lot of that stuff. I don't mainstream Japanese society approves of these things. They probably tolerate it at best.
And like Kagemusha said, I'm certain loli doesn't account for that much of all H-manga/doujinshi. I think 1/3 would be a high estimate. Another thing I meant to say before is that its possible that some of those 600 titles are labled "lolicon" simply for having underaged girls even if they aren't "loli". I was looking through out of curiousity to find some examples and I found one called "Raising Girls" and while the front cover had very underage girls, clicking on "Show Photo No. 2" showed a scene with a boy and a very non-loli woman. On a side note, I'd like to thank you for sharing this site. It looks like a good way to import stuff from Japan. |
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Kagemusha
Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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Kind of got cut off last time. To expand on the culteral acceptance, I think your right in that the lolicon (or moe for that matter) could stem from the image of an ideal woman. Another explanation I heard in a documentary was it has to do with the fact that many Japanese feel sexually intimidated as teenagers and develop an attraction to innocent, submissive girls. Add that to the fact that Japan probobly has the most sexually advanced culture in the world, and you can see why pedofilic porn is more widespread there than in other similarly developed countries. Still, like I said in my last post, most of Japan still does not accept this.
And most of the time people are extremely liberal about putting keywords, especially with porn in hopes of getting people with a specific fetish attracted to a product that may have little of what they wanted. |
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Wolverine Princess
 Posts: 1100 |
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I have a similar question. An extremely high percentage of anime and manga that sexualize children only involve underage female characters. Not that I wish there were more (I'm not that big of a pervert), but why is there significantly less shota manga and anime in comparison to loli ones?
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Kagemusha
Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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That's easy: most otaku are men. |
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Arkard
 Posts: 677 Location: Poland |
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Lately more and more female otaku have emerged here in Japan, and having actually met one and being introduced to the world of the female fan, I may safely say the shota movement is right on its way on the islands and it has nowhere to go but up
And I must say it. I believe the loli thing is silently acceptable in Japan. I see it everywhere. Loli manga and normal mags are EVERYWHERE. Convenience stores, news stands, book shops, old and new, there are basically everywhere you look. Ranging from your standard New Idol Rising type things, to hardcore bestiality / loli manga. Most people would probably have a problem with your outspoken support for children porno but enjoying a view of a 14-year old in a bikini, is not BAD as I see it. I am still in such a shock on how many 14-16 year olds in bikini one might see in a typical japanese magazine. The culture of loli, which is strongly connected to the Social Status of kawaii or moe, is extremely complex, and probably alot more forgiving than in the West. Its also very easily accesible, sometimes even snuck in to normal ero manga. Take me for example. I walk into a used book store, pick up a hentai title, reading from the back that its some sort of cheap porno about Office Ladies. OK. I buy it, read it and bring it back the next day because 2 stories had bestiality there with pre teen girls. Where did THAT come from? Geez.... Just my 2 cents 
What I would really want to know is whats the deal with Incest in Japan. I tried to research this but keep finding only porn sites 
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genman
Posts: 40 |
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I don't know how the Japanese could remain largely ignorant. Even though the hard-core manga isn't stocked at 7-11, there are a lot of ero-monthly anthologies with underage characters on the cover, and it's quite clear what's inside. And for people who actually read manga, they know about it, certainly.
I guess it does sort of come down as to what "lolicon" is and I guess the meaning is different in Japan and the U.S. I'd like to go to Manga no Mori or someplace in Japan and do a count sometime. I do agree things are labeled "lolicon" even though they aren't, to sell more titles. I came across this web site (not work safe) http://lolicon-doujinshi.com/, and I think a number of the titles aren't very lolicon. My favorite ero-manga artist at the moment is Amadume Ryuta (甘詰留太), here's a link from Amazon.co.jp: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/search/ref=nb_ss_gw/250-0387852-3141842?__mk_ja_JP=%83Jタ%83J%83i&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=甘%8Bl留太 Mandarake put him in the lolicon bucket, but the youngest he seems to draw girls at probably is around high school age. His style is detailed and not very cartoony, interestingly he emphasizes bone structure. Most girls aren't drawn with big breasts (A-cup) and they do look a little underfed. |
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Arkard
Posts: 677 Location: Poland |
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I saw my first hard core loli manga in a 7-11 here... |
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genman
Posts: 40 |
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It's been some time for me (about two years) since my last trip to Japan, so I'm out of date. For hard core manga (not the monthly) stuff I remember always having to get it at Manga-no-Mori or at some separate store at the back of Animate. I don't suppose you recall specific titles? |
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genman
Posts: 40 |
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Regarding incest, Google picked up this article which is somewhat unbelievable:
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html Actually, the whole site seems unbelievable. I didn't see any data online. Here's one link that talks about boys calling counselors saying they had sex with their mother: http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/japan.html I'm guessing you'd have to run a sort of Kinsey-esq survey where you brought in people at random and asked them about incest, rather than expecting people to voluntarily report it. I don't know if the Japanese government or some company would be motivated to run such a survey. |
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