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selenta
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1774
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 pm
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Steroid wrote: | I don't particularly like the Kyon-Haruhi pair-up. I would much have preferred Kyon-Asahina (and Haruhi-Yuki with the self-righteous Koizumi dying alone in misery).
I still don't like the Haruhi-as-god premise... here's what I'd like it to mean: that Kyon does tell Haruhi the others' identities, and the rest of the series--the ball game, the movie, etc.--is Kyon and Haruhi "playing" the others. |
I can't say I particularly like the pair up either, but although Kyon does like Haruhi, he also seems to want to be with Mikuru and Nagato. What it comes down to though, is that Haruhi likes Kyon, and if Kyon wants to live in our world he has to be with Haruhi. That's not exactly "normal" but nothing about this show is. If you want a watch a "normal" romance comedy go watch Ah My Goddess... then I think you'd see why we all prefer this to the alternative.
That's part of what people LIKE about this series, most of us don't see that as a bad thing, but as a bonus. Almost nothing about this show is "typical", from the character desgins, to the story, to even the order of the episodes everything is done similar to, but not the same as anything else. You may argue that you don't think Haruhi should be the god-like figure, but it wouldn't be nearly the same show (and would probably be quite boring) if she wasn't the exact person she was. The paradox between wanting to believe so bad and not believing because she's a rational smart girl is part of the allure.
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Eidolone
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:21 pm
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Storywise the "last" episode is only at where the first novel ended, and although many of the stories came from the later novels, lucky for us there are still more than enough left to fill another season.
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Steroid
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 329
Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:48 pm
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selenta wrote: | I can't say I particularly like the pair up either, but although Kyon does like Haruhi, he also seems to want to be with Mikuru and Nagato. What it comes down to though, is that Haruhi likes Kyon, and if Kyon wants to live in our world he has to be with Haruhi. That's not exactly "normal" but nothing about this show is. If you want a watch a "normal" romance comedy go watch Ah My Goddess... then I think you'd see why we all prefer this to the alternative. |
Except Haruhi doesn't "like" Kyon. She abuses the crap out of him. She may have feelings for him, maybe even deep love, but she doesn't express them.
See, I can buy that Haruhi wants aliens, time travelers, and espers to exist, but they don't want her to know. That's them being jerks. But I can't accept that Haruhi *wants* to be frustrated--that she wants them to exist, but hidden for her to chase and never catch. And so I can't accept that she wants her love to be circumstantial and unspoken. This is antithetical to the Haruhi we know. That Haruhi would sooner drag Kyon off to a hotel than set up a closed space.
If it is true, however, then it means that Haruhi of the changing hairstyles, the SOS Brigade, the home movie, is nothing more than a front. It means that her genki personality is nothing more then her compensating for being unable to get close to people, or her way of dealing with being one person in a crowd, as she mentioned last episode. It means that deep down, regardless of what powers she has, she's really a normal person.
If that is the case, I lose almost all respect for her. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's a normal person.
Quote: | That's part of what people LIKE about this series, most of us don't see that as a bad thing, but as a bonus. Almost nothing about this show is "typical", from the character desgins, to the story, to even the order of the episodes everything is done similar to, but not the same as anything else. You may argue that you don't think Haruhi should be the god-like figure, but it wouldn't be nearly the same show (and would probably be quite boring) if she wasn't the exact person she was. The paradox between wanting to believe so bad and not believing because she's a rational smart girl is part of the allure. |
I believe you are absolutely right. It's a very un-anime-ish anime. Which may account for its popularity among ANN users. You mentioned Aa! Megamisama, and it's a good comparison. That show uses magical powers to germinate love. With SHnY we have a show that suggests that love can *direct* the nature of power.I've never liked the "love conquers all" notion; I much prefer to believe love to be simply a medium of human happiness, and able to be manipulated to suit the need. AMG suggests that you can have that--use power to generate love for the purpose of happiness. Suzumiya (as you've interpreted it) says that you must use love in order to manipulate power into serving the greater good, and your own happiness or choices are irrelevant. By my preference, I will continue to interpret Suzumiya differently, and to rate it lower for being ambiguous on this point.
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:49 pm
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A great ending to a great series. I think I will give this series a masterpiece rating. The only other series I've given that rating to is Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.
Did anyone else notice two of the band girls appear right after the music from the opening starts? Or at least I think its the girls from the band, as one of them was playing a guitar.
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selenta
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1774
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:56 am
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Steroid wrote: |
Except Haruhi doesn't "like" Kyon. She abuses the crap out of him. She may have feelings for him, maybe even deep love, but she doesn't express them.
See, I can buy that Haruhi wants aliens, time travelers, and espers to exist, but they don't want her to know. That's them being jerks. But I can't accept that Haruhi *wants* to be frustrated--that she wants them to exist, but hidden for her to chase and never catch. And so I can't accept that she wants her love to be circumstantial and unspoken. This is antithetical to the Haruhi we know. That Haruhi would sooner drag Kyon off to a hotel than set up a closed space.
If it is true, however, then it means that Haruhi of the changing hairstyles, the SOS Brigade, the home movie, is nothing more than a front. It means that her genki personality is nothing more then her compensating for being unable to get close to people, or her way of dealing with being one person in a crowd, as she mentioned last episode. It means that deep down, regardless of what powers she has, she's really a normal person.
If that is the case, I lose almost all respect for her. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's a normal person. |
See, that's where you're just plain wrong, and I know this because I'm the same way. I'm the same kind of person Haruhi is in this respect, the closer I get to people, the more comfortable I am making fun of them and seemingly abuse them. Other people have occasionally thought I'm an asshole when they see me interacting with my friends, but my friends know me and seem to find me much funnier than I admit to. The other thing, is that I am as courteous as anyone (probably much more so actually ) when dealing with people I don't know particularly well.
It's not that the aliens and espers are being jerks, that's just silly. Koizumi already explained why they don't reveal their existence (though it turns out to be wrong, it's a very very good point). If Haruhi wants extraordinary things to be real, but if she knows they're real and gets used to them, they won't be extraordinary any more, just ordinary and boring. If she gets bored with the world, she might create a new world or change this one, which is essentially the end of the world (for better or worse doesn't matter). She doesn't WANT to be frustrated, what she wants is the inexplicable and mysterious, which of course sometimes leaves her frustrated as a side effect; because you can't explain what you don't understand, and if you understand it, it isn't mysterious. There's no reason Haruhi has to be the same one-track character we see in so many other shows, her feelings of attraction and friendship to Kyon are in no way related to her obsession with the occult and mysterious. Haruhi is treated in this show as a real girl, and even the boldest Japanese school girl has some reservations about her love life.
You don't like normal people? Well, then I guess this show just isn't for you; because what it boils down to is just that. Haruhi and everyone else are as real and fleshed out as I've ever seen, and that's what I really like about it. I know I for one can't stand stupid one-dimensional characters (I'm looking at you Shirou from Fate/Stay Night ).[/spoiler]
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darkchibi07
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5515
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:41 am
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HitokiriShadow wrote: | A great ending to a great series. I think I will give this series a masterpiece rating. The only other series I've given that rating to is Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.
Did anyone else notice two of the band girls appear right after the music from the opening starts? Or at least I think its the girls from the band, as one of them was playing a guitar. |
Oh I've noticed, and those are definetly the girls from ENOZ.
Subtle details like these are what makes this series highly reviewable. I'm tempted to watch the whole thing again but with my own shuffled order.
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Calculusman
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 309
Location: Virginia
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:21 am
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Quote: | The last line is somewhat cryptic, but here's what I'd like it to mean: that Kyon does tell Haruhi the others' identities, and the rest of the series--the ball game, the movie, etc.--is Kyon and Haruhi "playing" the others. |
Well, in the novel (at least the translation of it I've partially read), Haruhi just laughs at him after he tells her it and, as Yuki predicted, didn't take him seriously. This may also be the case in the anime since, in the ending credits of their movie, when Haruhi reads off the "this isn't based on..." bla bla bla, you can hear her complaining to Kyon about "isn't it obvious?" I suppose it's possible that it's all an act on her part and she really knows who they are, but if it goes along with the book, I don't think that's the case.
Also on top of the talking cat being unexplained...In one episode, I can't remember which - I think it's either Remote Island Syndrome (Part 1) or Mysterique Sign - I don't have the episodes right here to watch - When Haruhi asks Kyon "don't you remember?" at one point when they're in the clubroom, Kyon says something like "she's not going to bring up (so and so) from 3 years ago is she?" This line could mean something, but again, in the novel, they DID meet 3 years prior and perhaps in the anime Kyon had figured this out at one point. Or it could be nothing.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:00 am
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Congrats! Less than three hours ago, Proware Multimedia has announced that it has licensed The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya for R3!
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The Sphinx
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: The End of The World
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:23 am
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Calculusman wrote: |
Quote: | The last line is somewhat cryptic, but here's what I'd like it to mean: that Kyon does tell Haruhi the others' identities, and the rest of the series--the ball game, the movie, etc.--is Kyon and Haruhi "playing" the others. |
Well, in the novel (at least the translation of it I've partially read), Haruhi just laughs at him after he tells her it and, as Yuki predicted, didn't take him seriously. This may also be the case in the anime since, in the ending credits of their movie, when Haruhi reads off the "this isn't based on..." bla bla bla, you can hear her complaining to Kyon about "isn't it obvious?" I suppose it's possible that it's all an act on her part and she really knows who they are, but if it goes along with the book, I don't think that's the case.
Also on top of the talking cat being unexplained... In one episode, I can't remember which - I think it's either Remote Island Syndrome (Part 1) or Mysterique Sign - I don't have the episodes right here to watch - When Haruhi asks Kyon "don't you remember?" at one point when they're in the clubroom, Kyon says something like "she's not going to bring up (so and so) from 3 years ago is she?" This line could mean something, but again, in the novel, they DID meet 3 years prior and perhaps in the anime Kyon had figured this out at one point. Or it could be nothing. |
Kyon tells Haruhi the true identity of Yuki, Mikuru, and Itsuki at the beginning of Volume 2. Haruhi thinks he's making fun of her. She then take's Kyon's "joke" and turns it into the plot of SOS-Dan's student film. That's why she made Yuki play the role of an alien, etc., even though she doesn't know the truth.
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:14 pm
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dormcat wrote: | Congrats! Less than three hours ago, Proware Multimedia has announced that it has licensed The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya for R3!
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Hopefully an R1 distributor (I'm hoping for Geneon or FUNI) will announce the license soon.
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Anthony P
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, US
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:33 pm
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*ahem* And there it is, folks; at the time I'm posting this, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is the #1 rated anime at the ANN. Truly crazy. We all knew it was inevitable though, right?
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PantsGoblin
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Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2969
Location: L.A.
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:49 pm
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HitokiriShadow wrote: | Hopefully an R1 distributor (I'm hoping for Geneon or FUNI) will announce the license soon. |
I actually thought ADV might be able to do a good job on it. Funi or ADV would be my choices though. I was hoping it would have happened at AX but I guess it's still too early...
Anthony P wrote: | *ahem* And there it is, folks; at the time I'm posting this, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is the #1 rated anime at the ANN. Truly crazy. We all knew it was inevitable though, right? |
Wow, heh. I thought when the series ended the ratings would have gone down a bit... apparently it just put it higher though. Unbelievable.
Now time to marathon the last few episodes I haven't watched...
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hentai4me
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1313
Location: England. Robin is so Cute!
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:07 pm
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I've got to watch it in episode order now.
1 - 11
2 - 1
3 - 2
4 - 7
5 - 3
6 - 9
7 - 8
8 - 10
9 - 14
10 - 4
11 - 13
12 - 12
13 - 5
14 - 6
This is correct no?
so it'll be:-
2,3,10,13,14,4,7,6,8,1,12,11,9
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The Sphinx
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: The End of The World
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:14 pm
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EDIT: hentai4me- You missed one. Should be:
2,3,5,10,13,14,4,7,6,8,1,12,11,9
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 2362
Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:59 pm
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Ah, after comparing the two sequences, I finally see the genius in what Kyoto Animation was doing.
It's something like this in chronological order (thanks hentai4me & The Sphinx for the order)
1 (2) - Main storyline 1 - Introduction to entire plot
2 (3) - Main storyline 2 - Introduction to Haruhiism
3 (5) - Main storyline 3 - Introduction to three factions of Haruhiism
4 (10) Main storyline 4 - Yuki & Mikuru's Role in the Situation
5 (13) Main storyline 5 - Itsuki's Role in the Situation
6 (14) Main storyline 6 - Climax
7 (4) Main storyline Recap - Baseball Game
8 (7) Main storyline Extra - Computer bug
9 (6) Side Story 1 - Beach Mystery Pt. I
10 (8) Side Story 2 - Beach Mystery Pt. II
11 (1) School Life 1 - Festival Pt. I
12 (12) School Life 2 - Festival Pt. II
13 (11) School Life 3 - Vs. Computer Club
14 (9) School Life 4 - Someday In the Rain
Pretty much, everything that directly correlates to the main plotline comes first, with some stand-alone ones that relate to follow, a short beach mystery arc, and some standalone school life episodes. The main storyline seems to be more serious in tone, has more action, is more confusing & requires more thought, and seems to be the actual substance in the series (I am unfamiliar with the novels, so I don't know how the series fit into them; my guess is that the first 6 come from the first novel, and the rest are segments picked from some of the later novels). The others are considerably lighter, more comedical, feature more ccharacter development, and are more standalone than the first six.
Watching them in the chronological order really wouldn't be so thrilling, IMO - You get all your story & action first, and comedy later.
(I made up my own titles for these - The only one that I didn't make up is the last one. This is my interpretation of what's going on and where the specific arcs are - I'm not claiming that any of this is correct).
In the air order
1 (11) School Life 1 - Festival Pt. I
2 (1) Main storyline 1 - Introduction to entire plot
3 (2) Main storyline 2 - Introduction to Haruhiism
4 (7) Main storyline Recap - Baseball Game
5 (3) Main storyline 3 - Introduction to three factions of Haruhiism
6 (9) Side Story 1 - Beach Mystery It. I
7 (8) Main storyline Extra - Computer bug
8 (10) Side Story 2 - Beach Mystery Pt. II
9 (14) School Life 4 - Someday In the Rain
10 (4) Main storyline 4 - Yuki & Mikuru's Role in the Situation
11 (13) School Life 3 - Vs. Computer Club
12 (12) School Life 2 - Festival Pt. II
13 (5) Main storyline 5 - Itsuki's Role in the Situation
14 (6) Main storyline 6 - Climax
(The titles in red are, IMO, more standalone than the ones in black).
Since I don't think this is the order that the novel put the story in, I must commend Kyoto Animation for this ingenious order (I changed my mind again; I love this order).
While chronologically, the bad movie episode (Episode 1) serves to show you the movie made by the SOS-Dan before the festival, in this air order, it is like a pre-introduction to the series. Stuff is purposely thrown out at you that you have no idea about, and it makes the second aired episode all the more exciting while subtly revealing things relating to the main plotline.
After the second episode in the main storyline (Episode 3), it is still in its basic introduction and you know little to nothing at all as to what's going on. A perfect time to throw everything at you! The baseball episode (Episode 4) seems like a recap episode to me - nothing new storyline wise is really revealed, but it pretty much outlines some of what happened up to that point and reviews details about Haruhi and her role as a "god" of the world. Of course, at this point, it's not a recap episode at all, but it's the perfect time to toss this out to purposely perplex the viewer and have them yearn for more.
Since by Episode 4, the viewer is thoroughly confused (if (s)he has not read the novels), another plotline episode (Episode 5) is thrown out. This episode reveals many things, enough to explain why some of the SOS-Dan members acted the way they did. Also, it explains why Itsuki is there. Although, it still leaves many mysteries.
To me, it seems like the latter 3 episodes in the Main Storyline reveal significantly more information and move at a significantly faster pace, so it sort of makes sense to put it on hiatus for a while. Meanwhile, a mini-hiatus is started in this 4-week time. Plotwise, I think Episode 7 is much more important than Episode 6 or Episode 8, but putting an exciting Side Story on a mini-hiatus attempts to distract the viewer from this fact, and tries to undermine the importance of Episode 7.
I didn't like the idea of putting the final episode right in the middle of the series, but seeing as how it wasn't too conclusive (not nearly so as Episode 6), it wasn't a bad choice. A nice, relaxing episode to air before reintroducing the main storyline.
So after Episode 10 reveals more about Yuki and Mikuru's roles (and gives them more character development), the two climatical episodes in the Main Storyline are saved to air last, with some slower paced episodes, more stand-alone episodes. More character development here before the climax of the Main Storyline. Episode 11 gave us much more on Yuki's personality and showed that she wasn't just some "Rei ripoff," and Episode 12 showed us that Haruhi was more than just an eccentric, strange, Mikuru-abusing, alien-searching high school girl.
And finally, for the second time in the series, two back-to-back chronological episodes were aired. Episode 13 builds up on the supernatural elements, and makes Episode 14, the climax of the series, all the more exciting. The final episode, although chronologically occuring in the middle of the series, brings the series to a somewhat conclusive end (although we know that more happens afterward).
I'll now be bumping my rating of "Very Good" back up to "Masterpiece".
- My flashback on the series and my two cents on the air order.
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