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Key wrote:

Characters being careless or ill-informed about things that they wouldn't reasonably be expected to know a lot about does not automatically equate to "stupid writing."

It's like you people aren't even trying to read the thread. Read my post directly above your own.

Basically, it wasn't just Asuna's opinion, this was information the show was trying to pass off as fact. Asuna was merely the mouthpiece.

Riddley,

I brought up the NervGears of the dead guys because since they were once authorized for use, maybe there could be a way to use that to counter (or lessen the effectiveness) of whatever security had been put in place. This creator guy came up with programs, at least one of which spoiler[became a full-blown AI], and if a subsystem could do that, I wonder about Cardinal. At any rate, this is mere idle speculation. Probably the writer just figured it was too divorced from the narrative of the story to want to give it any time (or the anime guys decided to cut it in the interests of time).

dtm42 wrote:

Basically, it wasn't just Asuna's opinion, this was information the show was trying to pass off as fact. Asuna was merely the mouthpiece.

No offense but this sounds like something entirely up to the viewer's interpretation. Basically an opinion, not a fact. What makes you think Asuna was the mouthpiece? There really wasn't anything to clarify that what she was saying was true.

Chiibi wrote:

No offense but this sounds like something entirely up to the viewer's interpretation. Basically an opinion, not a fact. What makes you think Asuna was the mouthpiece? There really wasn't anything to clarify that what she was saying was true.

It was the way the scene was presented (the music and overall tone), plus how Kirito instantly agreed with her and said the words "time limit" with a lot of emphasis. Not to mention that this is the first time the show has even addressed the issue of the players' bodies deteriorating in the real world, which gives the scene added weight.

No, the subtitles in that scene were not written in red*, but we can comfortably take what they said to be fact until told otherwise. And that's a problem.

*
Umineko reference.

dtm42 wrote:

Key wrote:

Characters being careless or ill-informed about things that they wouldn't reasonably be expected to know a lot about does not automatically equate to "stupid writing."

It's like you people aren't even trying to read the thread. Read my post directly above your own.

And you did notice the time stamps, right? You apparently posted that while I was typing up my post. (I'm typing amidst watching American football games, so my posts aren't being done in seconds.)

Quote:

Basically, it wasn't just Asuna's opinion, this was information the show was trying to pass off as fact. Asuna was merely the mouthpiece.

I went back and looked at what you originally said about this issue, and you're just making assumptions here. What evidence is there that Asuna is being used as a mouthpiece for what the author regards as fact? Certainly not any more than what supports the view I stated - that Asuna is simply being portrayed as not knowing how it works - so that makes it pure speculation on both our parts, doesn't it?

I don't mind (much) you jumping on issues that are actual, verifiable plot holes, but your continuing attempts to make big deals out of nothing, and use your judgment calls as facts, is irritating.

dtm42 wrote:

Key wrote:

Characters being careless or ill-informed about things that they wouldn't reasonably be expected to know a lot about does not automatically equate to "stupid writing."

It's like you people aren't even trying to read the thread. Read my post directly above your own.

Basically, it wasn't just Asuna's opinion, this was information the show was trying to pass off as fact. Asuna was merely the mouthpiece.

"You people"?

Seriously, what's wrong with you? You should be glad for key and others mercy because if you treated or spoke to people like in any forum I moderate you would be banned. You need to learn serious respect for others, son.

Key wrote:

And you did notice the time stamps, right? You apparently posted that while I was typing up my post. (I'm typing amidst watching American football games, so my posts aren't being done in seconds.)

Oh, I noticed the timestamps. I also noticed that you failed to then edit your post.

I posted something else two minutes before the latest post of yours. Please read that post of mine, as I go into more detail there.

Riddley wrote:

"You people"?

Barely a single person who has been replying to me has actually done their homework and been paying attention, both to the show and to what I have written. So yeah, you people, because I am addressing a group of multiple persons. If your group has an official name you would like to use then let me know and I'll happily edit my previous post and use the name from here on out.

Riddley wrote:

Seriously, what's wrong with you? You should be glad for key and others mercy because if you treated or spoke to people like in any forum I moderate you would be banned.

You're a Moderator on other Forums? Good god.

Riddley wrote:

You need to learn serious respect for others, son.

And you need to read the thread properly; when you and others do not read my posts but just pick and choose you are actually disrespecting me. I put time into writing my posts; if you want to show respect then read them properly. Not that I really care if you respect me or not, but it is pretty hypocritical of you to talk about respect while not following your own advice.

Zac once had a rule that people had to read every post in the thread before replying. I wonder why he took it down.

dtm42 wrote:

I posted something else two minutes before the latest post of yours. Please read that post of mine, as I go into more detail there.

And I just read that and didn't see anything you said there which made that any more compelling. Let's see - Kirito is also a teenager who is unlikely to have any experience with such matters which would allow him to authoritatively counter Asuna's comments, so why wouldn't he agree with the girl he loves? Thus that he agrees with her is hardly compelling evidence.

You're pointing to the music as support? Please. It's dramatic music for backing the lovely-dovey relationship dynamic of two lovers facing a potential life-or-death crisis. Interpreting that as emphasizing Asuna's point is a real reach. (And yes, I did go back and rewatch that scene before making this comment.) So is reading too much into the fact it's the first time the issue has been seriously discussed.

In other words, what you're using to support your case here is tenuous as best and massively subject to interpretation. You'll have to do better than that.

Key wrote:

In other words, what you're using to support your case here is tenuous as best and massively subject to interpretation. You'll have to do better than that.

There's no reason in this situation for the show to have the characters believe one thing only for them to be wrong. Sword Art Online doesn't exactly strike me as a show that has the nous to pull off something like that.

I'll tell you what.

If it turns out that Asuna and Kirito were wrong, I will publicly apologise to you and to everyone else in the thread for my drastic misinterpretation of the scene and for spouting nonsense.

But, if I'm right and that scene was saying the truth, then I will be expecting your public apology for doubting me and for not reading the clear and obvious evidence when it was so clearly presented to us.

Fair?

(Of course, this assumes the show will even address this point again, either to confirm or deny the pair's beliefs.)

dtm42,

No. It's not fair. The point isn't whether you end up being right or wrong. The point is that you're trying to state something as true without sufficient proof. Your *assumption* may end up being correct, but it *is* an assumption.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

No. It's not fair. The point isn't whether you end up being right or wrong. The point is that you're trying to state something as true without sufficient proof. Your *assumption* may end up being correct, but it *is* an assumption.

All I am assuming is that what the characters believe - what they told us - is actually true. That's it.

It's an equal but opposite assumption on Key's part to believe that they're wrong.

Therefore it is a fair wager.

Question to admins/mods: uh, is dtm42 going to be allowed to be a complete ass in this thread for much longer? Because it's getting really irritating. And I'm not talking about an ineffectual Key remonstrance that dtm42 blows off and nothing happens - I mean something with real teeth?

That is all

dtm42 wrote:

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

No. It's not fair. The point isn't whether you end up being right or wrong. The point is that you're trying to state something as true without sufficient proof. Your *assumption* may end up being correct, but it *is* an assumption.

All I am assuming is that what the characters believe - what they told us - is actually true. That's it.

It's an equal but opposite assumption on Key's part to believe that they're wrong.

Therefore it is a fair wager.

Really? Let's see:

dtm42 wrote:

Basically, it wasn't just Asuna's opinion, this was information the show was trying to pass off as fact. Asuna was merely the mouthpiece.

In the above citation, you are stating as true that the show was passing us factual information using Asuna as a mouthpiece. But there is not sufficient proof to say that with any certainty. *That* is what people (myself included) are disagreeing with you about.

I *do not* think that the show is trying to pass off factual information using Asuna as a mouthpiece. I think it is *possible* that it is doing that, but that there isn't enough evidence to state that conclusively, as you have done.

dtm42 wrote:

DuskyPredator wrote:

Yeah, I don't see how the complaints are plot holes, more of things that just were not spelled out. I continue to get mighty surprised at how people can accuse the show of plotholes, and said things can be easilly explained.

That's what plot holes are; things that have yet to be explained. Just because we can speculate does not mean the plot hole doesn't need to be filled in anymore. And these are fundamental plot holes covering a fundamental part of the premise.

So under that definition, any show that does not reveal how something happends straight away, is filled with plot holes. Just because we don't know yet, does not mean we might find out later. Basically we have been told it happened, but we are only savy to what those inside SAO know, and it can be an effective technique to actually only have a limited release of info.

As for the ammount of time it took, gettiing ahold of thousands of pieces of technology to keep them alive in their homes would have been an expensive initial expense, that politicians would have wanted to get what they could out of it. They would also have needed to make a lot of room for the patients to be moved to hospitals, or even set up facilities specifically tailored for the patients, including possible internet upgrades. And with sensitivity of removal of headgear and such meaning death, I can see that if they were able to negotiate a date, they would have been sure that their plan of action would be very thought out.

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