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Fan Service and story integrity


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Jadress



Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 807
Location: Seattle. It purdy and nerdy!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:53 pm Reply with quote
I was wondering what people thought about fan service and if it effected an anime's (or manga's) story or integrity for them. Anime is pretty laden with fan service in general, so I am used to most of it, but I find it distracting and lame when it becomes overkill and really obvious. For instance, I loved the first GITS manga, and sure, there were plenty of cheesecakey shots and convenient angles showing off Kusanagi's goodies, but there was not so much that it got in the way of the story. But I've flipped through the second GITS manga, and now it just looks like porn, so I'm not really interested in picking it up. I'm sure the story might still be great, but when every single female character is wearing a pointlessly short skirt and/or panties/bodysuit that is so skintight, it wraps around the woman's crotch bulge with a big shiny highlight there and on the melon boobs, I find I can't really take the work seriously anymore because I find it a bit ridiculous.

So basically, how much is too much for you? (And I'm not really talking about anime series where the POINT of the show is fanservice (Aika), but ones that try to have an actual storyline).
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7992
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:30 pm Reply with quote
For me, I'd say fan service is great unless it's like Najica: Blitz Tactics then it gets to be annoying. I have a high tolerence for it, but when there's absolutely no attempt at an excuse for showing off like that (I'd even take a lame one) and it gets ultra-repetitive that's where I draw the line.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:32 am Reply with quote
Abundant fan service becomes problematic and begins to detract from the story as a whole if it's not kept in check. Fan service has its place but often times it's put someplace where it just doesn't work with the atmosphere and feel of an anime and only goes to damage the immersion.
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 764
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:45 am Reply with quote
I try not to let it get to me and try focusing on the story but there is a point where it needs to be stopped. Because you'r eright eventually it just gets in the way at times.
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PantsGoblin
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:33 am Reply with quote
fan service + Good Story = Sad
fan service + Comedy = Smile

Usually if I watch an anime with a lot of fan service, I prefer it to be a comedy. One with little or no story if possible. That way it has no story to get in the way of. Very Happy
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PantsGoblin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:41 am Reply with quote
Jadress wrote:
So basically, how much is too much for you? (And I'm not really talking about anime series where the POINT of the show is fanservice (Aika), but ones that try to have an actual storyline).


Sorry I didn't see that. I should have read the whole post. <hits self on the head>. Well this makes everything different. Hmm... the only anime that I watched that had an excess amount of fan service and a good story that I enjoyed would be Popotan. I don't know it was just different... very mysterious... just stood out from the other ones, can't really explain it. All of the other anime with a story and an excess amount of fanservice I didn't like that much. I don't mind fan service as long as there isn't an excess amount of it.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:33 am Reply with quote
I'm not sure it's fair to talk about the works of Masamune Shirow as containing fanservice. Shirow is an artist who produces powerfully erotic work, with themes as extreme as SM and bestiality. Eroticism is just part of his graphic (in both senses of the word) vocabulary, not an "artificial additive" to increase sales as fanservice is.

Anyway, I personally don't find fanservice annoying, even if there's a story trying to get itself told in amongst all the panties and cleavage. In fact, I find the "anti-fanservice" that some animes contain highly annoying. I could give several anime examples, the most recent i've seen being Blood+, but I'll explain using Daphne from Scooby Doo as more people have probably seen that cartoon than any specific anime. So, has anyone ever seen Daphne's panties? No. And this is despite the fact that she wears a very short dress, and is always tripping over, climbing, falling down holes, etc. etc. This surely is just as unnatural as the unremitting panty shots of Najica and Aika.
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:39 am Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:
I'm not sure it's fair to talk about the works of Masamune Shirow as containing fanservice. Shirow is an artist who produces powerfully erotic work, with themes as extreme as SM and bestiality. Eroticism is just part of his graphic (in both senses of the word) vocabulary, not an "artificial additive" to increase sales as fanservice is.

Anyway, I personally don't find fanservice annoying, even if there's a story trying to get itself told in amongst all the panties and cleavage. In fact, I find the "anti-fanservice" that some animes contain highly annoying. I could give several anime examples, the most recent i've seen being Blood+, but I'll explain using Daphne from Scooby Doo as more people have probably seen that cartoon than any specific anime. So, has anyone ever seen Daphne's panties? No. And this is despite the fact that she wears a very short dress, and is always tripping over, climbing, falling down holes, etc. etc. This surely is just as unnatural as the unremitting panty shots of Najica and Aika.

Yea but Daphne's skirt is like skin tight it doesn't flap around everywhere even though how short it is. And the anime you describe I haven't seen were they meant to be seen for a child audience? (I'm pretty sure Blood+ isn't because I've seen the Blood movie that came before Blood+).
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:47 am Reply with quote
Unless you're thinking of Velma...Her skirt was pretty short and wasn't skin tight...IIRC. But still it was meant and targeted for a young age and the time scooby-doo was made was back in the 80s'....which then standards in America in my opinion when it came to shows were a little more stricter.
(except for looney toons they got away with alot but they weren't targeted for a younger generation even Tex Avery and Bob Clampett stated that in a comenatory). But today regular cartoons go crazy ed,edd,n' eddy much in the ways of "scamming" people and making it look like it's alright, Johnny Bravo flirting and hitting on girls and the way he trates them with soem disrespect just doesn't seem in my opinion what would be used in an older cartoon for children.Those are just two examples I'm sure there's more and there's probably some against my theory I'm just stating what is in my opinion.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
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Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:13 am Reply with quote
Daphne was just an example that I'd hoped most people had seen, I wasn't trying to fly off OT. In Blood+, Saya wears a short, loose skirt with a hemline that is magically held down even when she jumps from high places.
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:08 am Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:
Daphne was just an example that I'd hoped most people had seen, I wasn't trying to fly off OT. In Blood+, Saya wears a short, loose skirt with a hemline that is magically held down even when she jumps from high places.

Oh well, nothing much we can do about that...it's up to the creators.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
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Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:05 pm Reply with quote
remember love wrote:
Oh well, nothing much we can do about that...it's up to the creators.

You don't say Neutral
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Chiroptera Rex
Space Cowboy



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 262
Location: The Batcave, Gotham City, Wisconsin.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Jadress wrote:
For instance, I loved the first GITS manga, and sure, there were plenty of cheesecakey shots and convenient angles showing off Kusanagi's goodies, but there was not so much that it got in the way of the story. But I've flipped through the second GITS manga, and now it just looks like porn, so I'm not really interested in picking it up. I'm sure the story might still be great, but when every single female character is wearing a pointlessly short skirt and/or panties/bodysuit that is so skintight, it wraps around the woman's crotch bulge with a big shiny highlight there and on the melon boobs, I find I can't really take the work seriously anymore because I find it a bit ridiculous.


I think that Ghost in the Shell: Man-Machine Interface is a lot harder to understand than the first Ghost in the Shell manga. While most of the first manga still takes place on the cold, hard streets, the second volume probably takes place more in cyberspace than any real environments. The end of the second volume still leaves me wondering just what the hell was going on. Perhaps due to this, other "tricks" had to be used to lure the reader in. Man-Machine Interface definitely has a lot of fan-service which may help to bring the reader into the story. I think that another reason for this fan-service is the improvements in design of the characters. Honestly, the second volume is just stunning to look at. As for the story, it's a bit hard to grasp.

To add, the 1995 movie had quite a bit of nudity that I think could put the two manga to shame (there is a third manga, an e-manga, that links the first two volumes together, but I have not checked out if it's still available). Still, in the manga that I have read and the 1995 movie, the nudity takes a back seat to the great story.

As for too much fan-service, I haven't even seen R.O.D. -The TV- yet, but I have the entire series ready and waiting to be watched. Just looking at those mini-pencil boards that come with the DVD, plus the DVD covers of some of them, I wonder if the fan-service in the series will trump the story.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18404
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:16 pm Reply with quote
remember love wrote:
Unless you're thinking of Velma...Her skirt was pretty short and wasn't skin tight...IIRC. But still it was meant and targeted for a young age and the time scooby-doo was made was back in the 80s'....which then standards in America in my opinion when it came to shows were a little more stricter.


Uh, the earliest Scooby-Doo episodes actually date back to the late '60s, which explains a lot about the way the characters look and act if you think about it. Wink

As for the original subject, fan service is generally classified as "gratuitous" nudity, panty shots, etc. (it's there to satisfy the fans, hence the name), so series where the nudity is an integral part of the storytelling don't count. While having actual "fan service" nudity in an anime has never bothered me, I can think of a few series where I could have done without the panty shots or the skin-tight clothing which only barely hides ridiculously-proportioned figures. (Daphne in the Brilliant Blue immediately springs to mind.)
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IchigoK90



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1634
Location: Scarborough, Ontario
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:49 pm Reply with quote
Well fanservice does influence an anime to some point and there are anime where the fanservice isn't necessary. One such anime in my mind is Ai Yori Aoshi. I'm sure many people would agree with that. The series had a good story and romance but the fanservice and the like detracted viewers from that until the end.

"Believe it!"

- IchigoK90
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