Forum - View topicCall to the anime comunity regarding fansubs
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Shouta
Posts: 32 |
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I started with VHS tapes myself. I remember spending my allowance money just to get the next tape here and there. I remember my neighbor showing us tapes of the latest material being released and etc (I remember him showing us Genocyber, Plastic Little, Toshinden and all that). So it isn't a matter of how you started, it's a matter of where you've been. It's what I find irksome about fans that say they've been around for a long time but have really one-sided opinions. You have to walk both sides of the line. You'll see me defending domestic companies as well as fansubs but I won't hesitate to blast either at any given time. Just to make an observation from your posts, it seems to me that you've walked one side of the line quite a bit, that side being a person that grew into anime based on what was released here. You certainly know your stuff about the principle ideas behind fansubs, I certainly can't deny that. Hell, you know a lot more than 90% of the anime fans that I've met since I started into this heavily. Yet it just seems that you haven't really ever walked along the line on the fansub side of things. I'll say the same thing I said to Cookie and Dan (I think it was Dan) in the ethics thread; You can be as close as you want to this side of the fence but until you've climbed over and played in the yard itself, you never really know what it's truly like. I don't mean to come down on you but I needed to get that off my chest. |
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shintopriestess
Posts: 26 |
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Just like in the last thread generated by ANN's exploration into fansubs and its lack of solid background into them a similar thread only generated a left and right hand debate. While at the end of the thread it was admitted by one poster that it seems ANN's only purpose was to try and make more people drop fansubs rather than promote an open discussion on them.
ANN's view has been anything but open with their constant remarks of negativity in the mass majority of response thread's I've read. Yet when I read their reviews of anime from the US the common reviews contain such colorful descriptions as 'crapola'. While I agree ANN's news bulletins are one of the top I've seen and I do praise them dually for it their reviews of the fansubbing community and even american anime and manga reminds me more of an anime fan who has been in the hobby too long and cant make open remarks covering content rather than personal viewpoints to help promote specific companies like tokyopop (as referenced in the Alien 9 manga review stating its cheaper getting a book from them than CPM) One recent review that seems rather out of place is this: "In all, The Animatrix is a landmark event for anime fans, one that should be remembered for a long time, not for its relative quality, but for what the release means to anime fandom. This is, perhaps, the most significant anime event since Spirited Away won the Oscar; 2003 is turning out to be a banner year for anime fans. Let’s not waste it. Support fandom, support the Wachowskis, support your art form and purchase a copy of The Animatrix. " The fun part is I have this DVD and so do some co-workers I know who were drawn into the US site ads, clips and thought 'yeah it looks cool'. After getting it their feelings were mirrors of mine, "Depressing, Sad, dark, gloomy". I mean how can I as a fan help promote anime when a CD with moody dark work comes out making them think fans are a gothic group with no real sense of cartoons. Card Captor Sakura and Speed Racer and Sailor Moon did more postive help in getting anime known in the US than this. We watched it once in my house and the $14.95 movie is resting in a place even the lost ark could be buried in. As far as that wonderful documentary your looking at a 20 minute show which I had reviewed as uneducational in relating to anime. Maybe its just me but ANN as a news source is #1 but again and my remarks are only made based on their 'recent' reviews. Reading this: "The episode ends on a total cliffhanger after a flash of light bursts forth from Chi’s "power source" (read: symbol of virginity) when the creepy peepshow guy tries to touch her. Other than not-so-subtle suggesting that the show has a theme about "good" girls waiting to find true love before giving up their "purity" (cough), this episode serves very little purpose other than to fulfill the fantasy many fanboys obviously have." Oddly enough by the time Ep 2 DVD came out the US translation to the manga was at Vol 5. Now since normally Manga comes before anime if the reviewer had done their homework instead of pushing vol2 off as a service DVD it would have been known that her 'power source' and its reference are pointing to some facts you can normally with some basic sanity reference. 1) That spot is her ON switch. Ep 1 points out this when Hediki turned her on from their 2) She says no and dark chii appears warning her not to let anyone touch her their 3) If the manga had been read it would be known in a very romantic way that chi states only the one for her can touch her in that spot 
As it is this is based off of US DVD 1 & 2, my fansub collection of the series and the US manga translation 1-5. So to all you in ANN forum land a good night. ^^; Honest reviews are easy, opinionated reviews are quick to be disproven or corrected, factual reviews are hard, but an honest Otaku will do both to spread the fandom for everyone to enjoy, NOT to point biased and incomplete reviews for things that appearantly not enough research was done. After all surely some ANN people must be fluent japanese and could have viewed the Japanese chobits homepage for the story episode synopsis or had someone clarify the information. 
Well its late and please excuse my typos P.S. I always come here to read the ANN news. I only started posting and getting angry over the remarks made about Fansubbing and fansub groups. I owe them alot, I owe die-hard fans alot who gave me fansubs and translated manga so I could study japanese. Since some people wish to be Yin to things I will be the Yang Ja |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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evin if you just rent anime the companys still make money becouse someone had to buy the rental copy and those ussaly cost more.
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Emerje
 Posts: 7390 Location: Maine |
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Acutally I'm only arguing from the domestic side because that's the side I've chosen to promote. I'm not exagurating when I say KaZa is running on my computer more often than not downloading just about any series that comes to mind. I do still manage to avoid licensed material, but I'll admit to having packed over 100 CDs now. But you'll never catch me saying that Fansubs made me a fan. When I started I didn't have access to them, there was no such thing as digisubing, and CDs were a new luxury. I've been a diehard fan ever since, I own over 200 DVDs and several more than that in VHS, all domestic, and that's just what I own. That's not braging, just pointing out why I might seem like I know what I'm talking about. I remember the first anime I watched knowing it was Anime[also the first anime I saw on TV knowing it was anime] (Vampire Hunter D back in 92 on Scifi), the first Rental I made (Wicked City in 96 at Home Vision Video), My first VHS purchase (Three at once actually, The last volume of Tenchi Muyo TV, a volume of Street Fighter II V, and Fire Emblem, each under $5 at Mardens Surplus and Salvage in 1998) and my first DVD purchase (OK, I forgot this one.) Now, think about how many times you've been in a forum and someone has said "Hey, I love Dragonball Z, is there anyting else out there?" or "I love Sailor Moon, what else is there like it?" or howabout "I've grown out of Pokemon, is there anything better?" and my favorite "I've seen Cowboy Bebop, Dragonball Z, Trigun, and Ninja Scroll, what should I buy next?" THIS is where it starts. This is what I mean by starting with Pokemon. Just how many people got their first taste of anime, really knowing it's anime watching a fansub? Yeah, you get a lot of people that will say "hey, you've got to see this" to someone who has no prior understanding, but TV is almost always the first and most memorable exposure. Emerje |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Although you have a valid point there in regards to TV watching, we all have different experiences. TV might give you a taste of anime, but (and especially from older years) it doesn't necessarily make you a fan. Seven years ago, I first caught a bit of Sailor Moon on broadcast. Now growing up, I've always loved animation. But I never really figured to make it any kind of hobby. The thing is, I was working graveyard shifts and it was the only thing on TV (didn't have cable back then) The problem is that the eps were out of order but the thing that intrigued me was that unlike most cartoons made in the USA, this one actually showed me that it had some kind of ongoing story. I saw maybe all of 6-7 epidsodes and then it was yanked from that 6:30am time slot that so many people will remember having to deal with.
I shrugged it off and said 'oh well' to it. I thought it was interesting, but that really didn't make me a fan of any sort. I didn't actively search it out. Not too much later, I had internet access. And a different job. At this new job, when I was in a training class, I started looking around and heard somebody mention Sailor Moon. So I started looking in the internet for it and decided to find out more information. Behold, there were vast amounts of hits on webpages dedicated to this. I had no idea that so many people were interested in this. I got to talking to a co-worker in this same class as he had noticed my interest. He had recorded all the dub eps. and he lent them to me. So I was appreciative of that so I got to see more about the hoopla. At that point, looking back, I still don't see myself as having been a fan at that point, nor did I consider myself a fan back then either. What I did run into was the disturbance that there was a lot of things cut and censored by the US. That disturbed me because I felt something was missing. Naturally that left a sour taste in my mouth regarding the U.S. companies. But wait... I had other friends at my workplace who were really into this. They lent me fansubs. O_O I had always disliked subtitles up this point in my life, as I found them annoying and didn't really want to bother reading. But I wanted to get a clear picture of what had been done to this series that I was starting to like. I didn't really love it until I saw it fansubbed. I felt then, as I do now still - (although I was very ignorant at the time of the world of dubs, anime, etc.) that I was a little closer to the original intent and feel of what the original producers of the show were trying to come across with. But even at that point, I look back and I can honestly say I didn't consider myself a fan. Some will disagree with this point, which is why I think some of the clashing comes with the POV. OTOH Emerje, you yourself show this in your point when you make such statments as:
I had a friend invite me over to his place. He had just gotten ahold of his fansub copies of Magic Knights Rayearth. So we started watching this. I looked at it and thought it was pretty cool. At that point, I started to ask questions. My thought is that you are not actually a fan until you start actively pursuing the hobby. There are reasons I say this. I have a friend who absolutly loves Kenshin. Yet he says he hates anime. He would never call himself an anime fan. Why? I've tried to get him into the hobby by loaning him different series; having him check out different genre's etc. Since he never actively pursued the hobby, he never became a fan of anime in general. He's a Kenshin fan, just like I was a Sailor Moon fan. But I was not an "anime" fan at the time, and to date, he still isn't one. Over the years, as I've grown older, and perhaps a little bit wiser, my stance on the companies is no longer that of bitterness. There are too many out there to be upset about, and they have done a decent job in bringing things out. Things have been brought to TV, although some things are very heavily edited. Some decisions have been bad, as all companies will do at one time or another. But without these companies, most of us in the ANN forum, and elsewhere would not have seen nearly as much as we have today without them. I'm a huge Maison Ikkoku fan. But it's because of Nth gen fansubs that I got to see it. Now I'm very pleased to be picking up the first DVD set. Ultimately, there were a number of factors that got me into becoming a fan. Sure, TV did play a role into getting me introduced into anime as we know it today. While I grew up watching Transformers and Voltron, I moved to Europe in the mid 80's and anime where I was wasn't known, and being just a kid, I knew nothing about it as well. Because of my background in growing up, I had the potential to become a fan because of TV. But in being honest with myself, I will stand up and say that fansubs played a very large role in me becoming a fan. We all become fans for different reasons, I was just given very quick access to fansubs. But at the time, there was very little direction I could go in other than that. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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I'm not so certain that is going to be the case. The local comic book shop where the anime club meets that I deal with, buys their stuff from Diamond distro, just like everywhere else. Although they have to pay for the stuff, they still pay less than MSRP because it's discounted. (Although in a smaller venue, you get less of a discount.) Then they put that up on the shelves for sale and rent. I can't speak for places like video stores however... (Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, etc.) |
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Ghost
Posts: 26 |
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The reasoning behind your promotion of commercial anime, isn't choice, you simply weren't exposed to fansubs and that's exactly Shouta' point. Back then, fansubs were very hard to obtain living in a urban city. If you lived in a rural area, it would've been nearly impossible to obtain. I have both fansubbed and the US versions of Blue Sonnet, Sukeban Deka and Genocyber. Vampire hunter D came out originally in '85 and was fansubbed and Wicked City in '92 and also fansubbed. We all can argue the amount LD's DVD's and VHS media we have, it doesn't matter. The forums we frequented, most fans have been exposed to both fansubbed and commercial anime.
DBZ? What? In it's edited version? ...or the revised version? That's why watching Pokemon via TV isn't watching anime in it's true form. This is what brings me back to my original point. Hardcore anime fans and this refers mainly to OS fans, will mostly likely collect both fansub and the commercial version, subtitled! Moreover, they even may have the R2 DVD's. TV anime is exposure to new fans in the US, who otherwise wouldn't know anything about it. However, it doesn't tell you about the culture. You're just scratching the surface. Die-hard fans would rather rot in Hell than to watch edited-dubbed anime. The debate isn't about commercial anime and how much you have, it's about fansubs and how they're not needed anymore. My question is, how can you be qualified to form an unbiased opinion when your only exposure is TV and the latest version anime? In conclusion, this topic has been going for how many days? We're just going around in circles due to fanboys who simply can't comprehend due to lack of exposure. ...and this is a perfect example when I previously said, "Stick to what you know". Another thing that always happens with articles that are inaccurate and inflammatory, and the naive fans who supports them... Is the fact that they inadvertenly promote the very thing they're trying to discourage in the first place. -Ghost- |
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