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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:12 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
In addition, as we sent out probes to other planets, a lot of what was legitimate hard SF when it was written (such as jungles on Venus) turned out to be simply wrong.


If the science of the day had good reason to suspect something which later was proven to be false, that doesn't make any hard Science-Fiction story based on the incorrect theories to be soft. When judging works you have to keep context in mind.

Alan45 wrote:
Ultimately fussing about the science in a story tells one or both of two things.


I'll address these separately.

Alan45 wrote:
1. The story is not compelling enough to sustain your "suspension of disbelief". That is you got bored enough to see holes in the setup.


This is a partial answer. It may have just been that the science was bad enough to be glaring. My father tells me that as a young man he went to see a Star Wars knock-off where the heroes fired their laser pistols out of the windows into space. Who the heck puts windows on a spaceship??????????

So yeah, the story can be quite compelling, but the science can be completely crap. Steins;Gate is an example of this; the story is generally fantastic and the voice acting is superb, but a phone-microwave that can send text messages back in time? That's not what a cavity magnetron does. The show also featured the ability to send your consciousness back through time using a set of headphones . . . you can't blame me for rolling my eyes at that.

Alan45 wrote:
2. you, as an individual tend to over think things and have the type of personality that likes to pick a story to death, even when you claim to like it.


Well, as the whole "skirt issue" with Moretsu Pirates showed, I don't like egregious and moronic mistakes in the shows I watch. But I still like Moretsu Pirates, I just am not going to give it a free pass. It's called accurately judging the show rather than being a blind rabid fanboy (or fangirl), like so many of the viewers this season.

You know, I actually think of myself as the normal person, and perceive people who willingly ignore instances of bad writing as the weirdos. That they so readily strangle their common sense into a coma just to enjoy something that's poorly written seems really odd to me.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:06 am Reply with quote
Past wrote:
tuxedocat wrote:
No one is really stopping anyone from doing what you are suggesting right now. I've just been thinking about this alternative in response to the question I've been seeing lately as to how it could be localized for English speakers in some way.

Much like Karuta functions as a learning tool in Japanese schools, the Shakespeare Sonnet version could have the same academic applications in English speaking schools. Plus it would be fun to play at cons, where a tournament room could be set up. or something.

---I guess maybe I should get busy and create the things... Idea
I just wanted to throw that suggestion out there again and reinforce the convenient fact karuta does not really require Japanese speaking knowledge, because I'm sure it's piqued the interest of other fans, but this is coming from a purist when trying to bring trendy Japanese things to the west that were popularized in anime: the thing being karuta this time, must not be modified in any significant way. In order to fully enjoy it, it's the responsibility of the player to make cultural changes to oneself to fully immerse themselves in what it's like to play karuta. Otherwise it's not karuta. Yes it's a challenge, and yes its probably impractical, but as a purist, "anything less is uncivilized."


You can call me uncivilized all you want, but I still think that a game based on Karuta would be a good introduction to Shakespeare's Sonnets for students of English literature.
I'm not even planning on calling it Karuta so you can sleep well at night and not make yourself sick over it or anything. I understand that being a purist is stressful, and you know what all the doctors say about stress.
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9946
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:00 am Reply with quote
@dtm42

Yeah, mini skirts in space are kinda silly. But that is really all that needs to be said. Why obsess about it? Look, the science and the history in that show are as full of holes as Fearless Fosdick after a gun battle. The have taken most of their science from other science fiction shows and their history from Disney. So what? It is an engaging story about interesting characters. Think of it as fantasy, then anything goes.

Your take on the skirts was different from mine. In watching anime, I find that the Japanese are blind to some aspects of their culture that are not universal. Think of the communal bathing facilities in Strike Witches or Sora no Wata. To them school girls wear uniforms, both in and after school. They were on a school trip and therefore were wearing school uniforms. They either didn't think it through or didn't care. The Japanese are not unique in that blindness. In all the discussion of Listen to me Girls people keep saying that "Social Services would be all over that". No one has discussed if Japan even has such an agency or what it's approach would be.

My basic point is that the story matters more than any minor detail. Personally I note such glitches and move on. Why spoil the entertainment.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24025
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:17 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
You know, I actually think of myself as the normal person, and perceive people who willingly ignore instances of bad writing as the weirdos. That they so readily strangle their common sense into a coma just to enjoy something that's poorly written seems really odd to me.


But you're not a "normal" person. I don't think anybody at ANN who has read a representative sampling of your posts thinks you are a normal person. You are unbelievably anal and nitpicky about things beyond what a normal person would be. It's just the way your mind is wired. When a normal person passes over a minor detail like mini-skirts in space, it is not a matter of enjoying something that is poorly written, it's a normal person's normal ability to assign a detail its proper perspective. Only your deluded arrogance prevents you from understanding what is a pretty obvious point to the rest of us.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
My basic point is that the story matters more than any minor detail. Personally I note such glitches and move on. Why spoil the entertainment.


See, this is what separates you from me. For me, if the story is infused with writing flaws, then it is harder to enjoy it. There is more suspension of disbelief required, and that means more effort.

I'm not spoiling my entertainment, the story is spoiling my entertainment.

Blood- wrote:
Only your deluded arrogance prevents you from understanding what is a pretty obvious point to the rest of us.


Oh, so I'm deluded and arrogant? Don't stop there, keep going.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24025
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:27 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Only your deluded arrogance prevents you from understanding what is a pretty obvious point to the rest of us.


Oh, so I'm deluded and arrogant? Don't stop there, keep going.


Keep going? And perhaps lose for all time my chance of getting an invite for a New Zealand BBQ? No, one rather thinks not.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:41 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
dtm42 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Only your deluded arrogance prevents you from understanding what is a pretty obvious point to the rest of us.


Oh, so I'm deluded and arrogant? Don't stop there, keep going.


Keep going? And perhaps lose for all time my chance of getting an invite for a New Zealand BBQ? No, one rather thinks not.
I heard Australian ones are better anyway.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24025
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:54 pm Reply with quote
Actually, I have a soft spot in my heart for Kiwis. Peter Jackson directed one of my favourite films: Heavenly Creatures. Flight of the Conchords is Kiwi. Plus, as a Canadian, I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6712
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Plus, as a Canadian, I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.

Damn Greenlanders.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:49 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
Quote:
Plus, as a Canadian, I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.

Damn Greenlanders.


Damn right. Those Greenlanders are nothing but trouble. You know they lie right? Greenland isn't even green at all! That's some propaganda shit right there.
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Errinundra
Moderator


Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6568
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:51 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
...I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.


It's easy overshadowing New Zealand. (Except at rugby, but only neckless people play that.)
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dizzon



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 338
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:59 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
The King of Harts wrote:
Quote:
Plus, as a Canadian, I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.

Damn Greenlanders.


Damn right. Those Greenlanders are nothing but trouble. You know they lie right? Greenland isn't even green at all! That's some propaganda shit right there.


Hey now! You can't blame Greenlanders for that. Your beef is with
Erik the Red and his reverse psychology. Wink
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9946
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:18 pm Reply with quote
@dtm 42

In that case, I feel sorry for you. You must not enjoy much. Most stories are like a piece of cloth, pull out enough threads and the whole thing falls apart.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:05 pm Reply with quote
dizzon wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
The King of Harts wrote:
Quote:
Plus, as a Canadian, I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.

Damn Greenlanders.


Damn right. Those Greenlanders are nothing but trouble. You know they lie right? Greenland isn't even green at all! That's some propaganda shit right there.


Hey now! You can't blame Greenlanders for that. Your beef is with
Erik the Red and his reverse psychology. Wink


What!? No! We've talked a fair bit in the community forum about hockey and stuff. He's a real nice guy. Laughing
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dizzon



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 338
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:30 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
dizzon wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
The King of Harts wrote:
Quote:
Plus, as a Canadian, I know what it is like to be overshadowed by a larger, more boisterous neighbour.

Damn Greenlanders.


Damn right. Those Greenlanders are nothing but trouble. You know they lie right? Greenland isn't even green at all! That's some propaganda shit right there.


Hey now! You can't blame Greenlanders for that. Your beef is with
Erik the Red and his reverse psychology. Wink


What!? No! We've talked a fair bit in the community forum about hockey and stuff. He's a real nice guy. Laughing


Oh, he's a sweetheart! Just ask his neighbors.... Wait! Nevermind. Laughing Embarassed
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