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NewAgeNewtype
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Hyperbolic Time Chamber
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:17 pm
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No guys, you don't understand. THE FANSUBS
walw6pK4Alo wrote: | I think 009-1 for 325,000 is one of the biggest offenders on that list. It's not that good a series, it's not really that good looking either, and I can't hope to think it made any money back. It's also half the length of some other shows that were far better, and less expensive. |
While I like 009-1 quite a bit, can't disagree with it being a dumb choice. The cost is probably due to the Shotaro Ishinomori name. Now I gotta wonder how much Skull Man, Kikaider and Cyborg 009 cost.
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TJ_Kat
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:19 pm
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By taking back all the licenses, why would ADV owe ARM (and later FUNimation) anything? You default on your mortgage, your lender takes your house away, but you don't have to keep paying for the mortgage anymore.
I realize taking the licenses back doesn't exactly amount to the same thing since some titles had already been released for a while so you'd expect some money to be owed for them, but most certainly not the full amount.
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bradc
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 152
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:19 pm
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walw6pK4Alo wrote: | I think 009-1 for 325,000 is one of the biggest offenders on that list. It's not that good a series, it's not really that good looking either, and I can't hope to think it made any money back. It's also half the length of some other shows that were far better, and less expensive.
The best deal on that list is Underwater Ray Romano. I wonder how they got that for such a low price. |
Some the titles they had were decent and good; certainly it weren't the best. Coming from ADV, they really did a poor job in putting these series out mostly from product and distribution line.
ADV can't make money back, the company been dead years ago.... They still exist only for the old catalog and money transfers from one company to another. Given the fact, they are poorly mismanage distributor.
Bargaining or bribing from under the table and some convincing???
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Razzuel
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 164
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:28 pm
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I find this absolutely fascinating. One, because we rarely, if ever, hear about licensing costs, and two, because they paid $1 million for Kurau.
Kurau is one of my favorite anime ever, and I'm probably the biggest Kurau fan that exists, but I can't imagine why they paid $1 million for it. I guess everyone involved thought it was going to be a big hit? Even though it should have been more popular given its quality, it probably didn't help that ADV marketed it as an action series about a bounty hunter/mercenary; they should have advertised it as what it actually is — a sci-fi character drama.
Also, I'm curious how this list compares to the rest of ADV's catalog, and I'd love to know how these costs compare to today's licensing costs. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever hear the answers to these questions.
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Prede
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:32 pm
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I wonder if people either completely skipped over my post, or read it and felt ignoring me made more sense. You can disagree with ADV's claim, sure. But to ignore it entirely is wrong I think. No one has blamed fansubs (yet?). While that has an overall effect to the market collapsing when it did, that's not the issue at hand, nor is anyone saying that it is. Everything I quoted was on the texas court's website. You can make an account and see for yourself. I did input my opinion, and said when I did that however
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ajr
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 465
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:43 pm
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I agree that it's interesting to see how the license fees vary rather widely between the titles. Also, chalk me up as another person who liked Kurau (and it's really cheap right now), although I'm pretty sure that was a huge loss for whoever eventually wound/winds up with the bill.
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victor viper
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 630
Location: The deep south
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:45 pm
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It could very well be that some of these titles were packaged together. For instance if Guyver was packaged together with UFO Ultramaiden Valkyire for $775,000, then the Guyver acquisition wouldn't be quite as absurd as it appears. Maybe as the discovery process goes forward, we'll get some actual sales numbers on some of these titles, and then things will get really interesting.
And I'm certainly no expert on contract law, but it seems that since the rights to distribute many of these titles transferred to Funimation, ADV could argue that Funi has already mitigated their damages. I suppose Funi could counter-argue that ADV continued to obtain revenue on some of these titles after they had missed certain payment deadlines, but making that case seems like it would be awfully difficult (or would require a lot of forensic accounting), and such a total would almost certainly fall well short of the figure Funi is seeking. Then again, even if the case were to settle for 1/10 of what Funi is seeking, that could be a very non-negligible cash infusion for the company in the current challenging economy.
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bradc
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 152
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:48 pm
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Razzuel wrote: | Also, I'm curious how this list compares to the rest of ADV's catalog, and I'd love to know how these costs compare to today's licensing costs. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever hear the answers to these questions. |
Guess we will never know...
ADV's Live Action Adaption Film with Evangelion Movie that never happened. LOL
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:54 pm
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very interesting indeed.. still funi should have read over the fine print before picking up the titles via licnese rescue. I am happy to have air on DVD with the movie "come on bluray release please" but still licensing is a nightmare...something I would never get into no matter what the pay would be. I prefer writing/reviewing over this any day.
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Splitter
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1276
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:10 pm
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How did Air end up being so conservative in costs? I thought the license for that would be far more lucrative, or is that because they waited until two years after the DVDs were out in Japan?
Wow, they got burned on Kurau... though I'm sure sitting on the license for three years didn't help matters.
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Ranma824
Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:24 pm
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Wow, I had no idea Sojitz screwed over ADV so badly.
Underwaterrayromano and Air seem to be the best deals.
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Prede
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:13 pm
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Ranma824 wrote: | Wow, I had no idea Sojitz screwed over ADV so badly.
Underwaterrayromano and Air seem to be the best deals. |
Air and Magikano. Both were good sellers, and both were relatively cheap.
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PurpleWarrior13
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2034
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:17 pm
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I'm not saying ADV's not without their wrong doings as far as this scenario is concerned, but damn. They really were screwed over hard. I honestly think ADV's demise had little to do on the profit they made (or lack there of).
BTW, the Sgt. Frog numbers are based on the license for eps. 1-51, which is what FUNimation apparently got out of the initial deal (they licensed eps. 52-78 on their own). Since Sgt. Frog is such a long series (it's final episode count was at 358 eps), each ep was probably somewhat cheaper than usual (I guess. I'm not totally sure how incensing works). It's also possible these prices could be considered very large for what's usually paid, considering what when down in the Sojitz deal.
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dragonrider_cody
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:27 pm
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bradc wrote: | Looks like ADV was biting more than they can chew; the license company wasn't even mature enough to handle itself, comparison with FuniAnimation which sets them apart with their marketing strategies. ADV/Geneon(Pioneer) releases were disappointing way back when they release Saiyuki Reload. Poorly packaging with copy and paste logo on existing logo.... |
What does Saiyuki Reload have to do with ADV? They only released the first series.
Anyway, I'm surprised it took ANN this long to report this. It's clear from those prices and the legal documents released that Sojitz had some serious conflicts of interest in their dealings with ADV. they chose what ADV licensed, how much they paid for it, how ADVs finances were managed and ultimately were the benefactors when ADV made payments back. This was a really terrible deal, so Ledford and company must have been pretty desperate or perhaps it was better the alternatives.
These shows were overpriced even for 2006 and like Prede I can't see them spending nearly a million dollars on Kurau when they had passed in EoE. It just doesn't make any sense.
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dragonrider_cody
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:31 pm
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Splitter wrote: |
Wow, they got burned on Kurau... though I'm sure sitting on the license for three years didn't help matters. |
Considering that Sojitz somehow got involved in th licensing of the show, I'd say it's quite likely that the deal for the show fell through after ADV initially announced its acquisition. After all, ADV was right lipped about the show after their original announcement and nothing happened until the Sojitz deal. It seems that Sojitz/ARM later acquired the series for ADV and the renegotiation required could explain why it was more expensive.
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