Forum - View topicNEWS: Hollywood Reporter: Live-Action Akira Film's Production Shut Down
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Well, what are you an Asian with a pro-Asian view or a caucasian that defend Asian (or pretend to be Asian) and has a thought like a weeaboo. I'm Asian, how do I know you're not really an Asian supremacist because I met people like that before.
Most of your posts have contradictions and double strandards. You complain about western whitewash Asian and yet you gave an OK for a Japanese person to play Spiderman. How is it different, and I didn't understand your explanation at all when I look back. your thing about Spiderman doesn't make any sense and I don't see any people beside you defending you. You're just like those people using racism to promote your agenda, you're like the Jack Thompson of "Asian don't get enough", what do you want an Asian president to run US also??
Yeah more proof that it's Asian supremacy after all. BTW, those 2 links you put up I don't trust them even if they are written by Asian because those are not credible. If you believe those link, then do you believe that video game cause violence.
When did I say Hollywood was never racist, you're making up stuff again.
I'm comparing you to those people that accused Resident Evil 5 of racism.
I don't know where to start, but your rant and your outspoken view don't hold to me and you know what. To any Moderator: Please close this thread, this is not going anywhere. This is turning into someone's personal vendetta and soapbox. Also, please ban LargeView, the person is using his view to spread propaganda. |
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LargeView
Posts: 17 |
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I'm a person who recognizes the racist casting practices that Hollywood and am making that fact known in this discussion because it is at the core of this Hollywood production.
Because nothing I have said is "Asian supremacist" in any way shape or form. I have provided evidence for everything I wrote. You have not. At this point you have given up and are throwing around meaningless labels at me as a last ditch effort to act as if you have some sort of higher ground in this discussion. You don't and by trying to slap an "Asian supremacist" tag on me without any credible reason why, you are basically admitting you lost this discussion. Also, let me remind you that it was you in the previous Akira thread where you claimed you were Asian without anyone asking you. You threw that in there as if it makes whatever you say correct. Since people online are known to be deceitful due to anonymity I asked you to provide proof and you linked me to some facebook profile. I accepted it but now after seeing your aberrant behavior here I am having doubts if that is even you. Can you prove that the person in that facebook profile is you?
You're not actually replying to anything I specifically wrote you are just saying it's "contradictions and double strandards." What did I write that made them "contradictions and double strandards"? Note the specific things I wrote and the explanations I gave otherwise you reply is meaningless.
Huh? How?
Why are they not credible? Each one goes in detail about the movie and they give their specific reasons and arguments. Whether or not you agree with them is not the point. The point is the Joy Luck Club is a controversial movie, especially in the Asian American community. Those links are proof of the existence of that movie being controversial and is not really seen as a positive Asian American movie like you claimed.
I never wrote that you said that "Hollywood was never racist" I wrote, "The fact you submitted that as supposed evidence to claim there isn't any racism in Hollywood..." which is paraphrasing what you wrote here in your last reply: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1904298#1904298 This is a direct quote found in your last reply: Hollywood is not all racist Again, you need to read better.
I assume you are talking about the video game and not the movie? Well, I don't play video games and this thread isn't about video games.
If you "don't know where to start" then it means you shouldn't be entering discussions about the topic. Also, you really hit rock bottom if you are trying to catch the attention to moderators to close this thread and ban me. As anyone can see I haven't done anything wrong. I participated in this thread about the topic of the thread (i.e. the Warner Bros production of Akira) and back up my statements with facts. You on the other hand write erroneous arguments that are proven to be wrong yet each and every time you ignore all proof against them and continue writing the same erroneous arguments. Now you have shown that instead of being mature and just admitting you were mistaken and move on you will stoop down to any level to avoid admitting you are wrong even if that means ridiculously calling for a thread to be closed and a person to be banned that has clearly done nothing malicious. |
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I don't see anyone backing you on this forum. I don't see anyone else beside you critcizing me. Beside, I think you're just on ANN to spread your "Hollywood is racist and will always be" rant and I never heard of any controversey about the Joy Luck Club. As I said, you attack on Hollywood whitewashing Asian but yet you defend Asian being cast in caucasian characters. I don't understand how a Japanese person playing as Spiderman is any different from a white person playing a Japanese character in Akira. So you don't play video game huh, I bet you don't watch any other anime beside Akira and DBZ. Do you know the series, Negima? Because the live-action Tv show based on Negima that was made in Japan was really bad. The casting was horrible, the story reek and uninspired and completely differed from the manga and the anime. The acting doesn't quite look good and not only that three characters are not supposed to be played by Japanese. According to your logic, this is where I would complain: Negi Springfield: the Character is from UK and is white, and yet in the live-action TV show he is played by a Japanese actress. Evangeline McDowell: The character is of Irish-English decent and is caucasian. and also played by a Japanese actress in the live-action Tv show. Shouldn't she be played by a a caucasian actress (specfically a British/Irish/Welsh actress) Asuna Kagurazaka: The main character's real name is Asuna Vesperina Theotanasia Entheofushia and according to the manga and the anime, she is European not 100% Japanese. She's played by a Japanese actress, not a caucasian actress. Even if you're not violating any rules, all you just doing is just soapboxing and throwing your own rant. I'm not, I just express my opinion and I don't see anybody else beside you criticizing me. My last word to you is that I was concern with the casting of Akira and the news of this, I'm glad Akira production shut down, it would've been horrible regardless of the cast. Also even if they cast Asian-American actors, it would still be bad because of the horrible special effect and major changes in the plotline and how do we know if any of the Asian American actors are any good or if they can put any heart into bringing out Akira. Akira would probably fail regardless if the actors is caucasian or Asian. When it comes to live-action based on anime, it can go good or bad. As Enurtsol said a few page ago: .
To any Moderator: Please close this thread, this is not going anyway productive. |
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LargeView
Posts: 17 |
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That's a pretty bad way to defend your arguments especially seeing as how it hasn't even been a day since I replied in this thread. Let me also point out that in the last thread there was another poster who also had similar arguments I did and also disagreed with you.
Again, another poor attempt at throwing whatever label you can at me to make up for the fact your arguments have been debunked and you don't want to admit so.
You just have as I proved it to you in this thread. You ignoring that doesn't change the fact it does exist.
I've already explained this to you a month ago. I've linked to that thread in this thread and have repeated at least 3 times that fact and you keep ignoring what I wrote. Don't know why you think that is working for you.
I've seen many other anime series and movies. Not Negima. As far as what you say about the casting the simple fact that the country of Japan is homogenous unlike the United States makes the comparison wrong. There are not that many non-Asians, let alone non-Japanese in Japan and let alone that work in the Japanese film industry. Therefore casting a Japanese actor to play a role that is originally not Asian but needs to be spoken in Japanese is really the only option. This is also the reason why setting Akira in New York still doesn't take away the fact that Asian Americans can still play the lead roles because the United States, unlike Japan, is very multicultural especially Manhattan.
This isn't soap-boxing evidenced by the fact that I entered this thread by directly replying to your comment. If anything it is you that is soap-boxing because you went ahead and brought up points that have already been proven wrong a month ago but repeated them anyway just to say them again. All I did was reply to that comment of yours here. Furthermore, I made quite clear what I was talking about and why I brought it up in this thread. People here were bringing up reasons why supposedly this movie being made is a good thing. Well I argued why it isn't a good thing and the casting issue is why it is a relevant point of the production. It was even brought up in the previous thread I was in way before I even entered the discussion. You are simply frustrated that your arguments have been proven wrong and instead of just being mature and admitting so you have tried a number of things to dismiss me including flat out ignoring the very replies that prove you wrong. It's incredibly childish.
Well, frankly any movie "can go good or bad". My point is that if this Akira production is made with the white washed casting then it only hurt Asian American actors further if the movie is successful.
You are not the only person on this board nor thread. With the exception of one reply you are the only person replying to me and since I came it's only been you and I. So it seems that "productive" in your mind means someone saying that you are correct. Well, I am sorry. You are not correct and I proved it so multiple times. This discussion would go a lot better if you wouldn't be dishonest by ignoring points and evidence that is brought up and wrongfully calling for threads to be closed and people to be banned just because you immaturely refuse to admit you were wrong. |
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bradc
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This is Hollywood in a nutshell. Noone is hurting anyone. Retelling of stories made into movie solely for entertainment purpose. Whether it was successful or not, like what you like. These people are actors/actress are part of the entertainment industry no matter what race and culture background one comes from. But, however, suggestively any person would be grateful if someone from their own culture gets to play the part that is suitable. Avatar: The Last Airbender, one of those films that didn't do so well at the box-office. There are probably more animation, comic books, movies and books out there likely getting remake, and retold for the same reasons. The Last Samurai was played by Tom Cruise. Memoirs of a Geisha had a few Chinese Actress in the movie, such as Gong Li and among the Japanese cast. |
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I'm not wrong and I will not admit it. Even if use evidence, it's still soapboxing and I have seen thread close because soapboxing even if they use evidence to back themselves up. Because unlike you, I have met hypocrite and single-minded zealous fanboy that think America is ruining anime/manga when it comes to topic like this and other stuff in the anime/manga field (dub vs sub war, live-action movie based on anime/manga). I've seen people hating on US for making a bad live-action movie based on anime/manga, but yet I don't see the same hate goes to Japan/Asia if they make a bad live-action (movie/Tv show) like Gantz, Negima, and Battle Royale. About the live action Negima, it should not have been created even from the beginning (watch the preview and the first episode, after that couldn't watch it anymore). Even if Japan had a homogenized race, then any live-action in Japan that require non-Japanese/Asian should not be done because it's hard to pull and it'll look awkward and weird for a Japanese person to play a non-Japanese/Asian person. Look, I didn't support Akira, and I was not happy with the cast. I'm happy that the production shut down and I would like to see an Asian cast if they ever continue making the movie. I remember on the previous thread, you didn't mind America remake Asian movie. I didn't tell you this, but the people that hated America remaking Asian film, they called it whitewash several times when I went up against them. Here's the part I knew there were hypocrite (the leader was a hypocrite), I posted evidence of Asia remaking American films and the leader removed it and told me to get out and I ask hime why, people in the group has the right to know Asia is remaking American films he didn't give an explanation it. That's how I knew the leader was a pro-Asian supremacist, if the leader wasn't he would've been glad (and also welcome) to see that US give back Asia for all the remake of Asian films US did. I knew the leader wanted to cover up any traces of Asia remaking American film, because if the group knew then there wouldn't be any reason for people to hate America for remaking Asian film when Asia was doing the same thing for American films. The Facebook group is no longer active and I think people in the group are now aware of Asia remaking American films. Also, Longview, have you seen the movie Inception and Black Swan. those 2 movies has been accused by anime fans of copying anime. Inception has been accused of copying Paprika, and Black Swan has been accused of copying off Perfect Blue. Even on several anime forum, people used "whitewash" and "racism" to back their support. Longview, you remind me of those people that use racism and whitewash to promote agenda and their soapbox view. I became fed up with these people and took them on myself. To me, you're no different from those anime fans that accuse America of destroying anime/manga. So my Spiderman played by Japanese doesn't work huh. Let me ask you this: The people that said US remaking Asian film is whitewash and racism, are they correct? The anime fans that said Inception and Black Swan is a whitewash and racist version of Paprika and Perfect Blue, are they correct? If you can prove to me that you're not like those people. Then I might give your reasoning a second or third thought. But as of now, I don't see Japanese characters being played by white cast any different from how Spiderman being played by a Japanese actor or Akira Kurosawa doing his own version of Shakespeare play. To me, the Hollywood whitewash is not my big issue, I got other big issues above this like the Model Minority crap and the issue of human right in brutal regime in Asia (China, Vietnam, and North Korea), those top my issue as a Asian American. |
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chibiyusa
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I have rarely replied on these forums, but sometimes when I feel an issue is being underrepresented, I feel motivated enough to post something.
For me this news is bittersweet. I would have loved to see a respectful Hollywood adaptation of a "classic" manga/anime. Unfortunately, the direction it was going has been riddled with issues that I have expressed in a previous thread. I guess my biggest concern as a whole is the general apathy from some of the posters on the ANN forums concerning the blatant racism involved in some of these adaptations. To those with the Goku is an alien and therefore "ought" to be white: As far as I can tell, even though Goku is an "alien" he is still Japanese in the sense of that he looks pretty similar to all the other Japanese characters depicted in the manga and anime. This is regardless of the fact that Dragon Ball itself is an adaptation of a Chinese novel. Anyway, since young Japanese males were probably the target audience of Dragon Ball, it would make the most sense that Goku, the main character, resemble the target audience in some respects. If the main intention was to portray Goku as decidedly alien, but humanoid in some aspects, he might as well look like Piccolo. Generally in anime, non-Japanese characters are often explicitly portrayed as being different. The default assumption for the original audience would be that the main characters are Japanese unless otherwise noted or specified. The reason I believe he ought to have been portrayed by an actor of Asian descent is because white should not be the default main character of all Hollywood films. If you see no issue with white as the default response for nearly every "American" main character, then I am afraid I lack the appropriate tools in conversing with you. Erasing and downplaying the distinct Asian influences of the source material, either in the live action Akira, Dragon Ball, or otherwise is really a slap in the face to the original creators and whole cultures. mdo7: Before you start again, I fail to see how I am being contradictory. Please see the previous thread. A side note: Even though I'm hardly an expert about the whole process, if budget was a concern, perhaps they could have avoided some of those issues by not courting such high profile actors. *cough* I mean, they could have asked some up and coming actors (of Asian descent perhaps?). |
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enurtsol
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In America. In India, he's......................... Indian Superman!!!!! ![]() ![]()
Then there's also the other side, the other possibility: a high-profile movie starring Asian main actors and................... it isn't successful. Imagine all the blame games on that one. ![]()
Well, default can be for a number of reasons. There are multilingual countries where the default language is spoken by less than half the population but is the most widely spoken language there. Caucasians still make up the majority of North Americans, so just by random chance on a generic movie, there's greater chance the main actor would be white, simply by default. So "default" by itself does not mean a whole lot. |
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Well I'm not going to say contradictory or conteract your comment, but I am glad that Akira production shut down, I was concern with the cast and the way it goes, same thing for Oldboy which has been delayed. I would've like to see it handle more faithfully and with an Asian American casts. But what disturb me is that people accused Hollywood of whitewash (which I will acknowledge), but people ignore this similar practice in Japan, like Spiderman done by Toei. Also Toho as I mention in one of my post did Matango which was based on a western novel, the novel had caucasian character where in the film, the caucasian character have been replaced with Japanese characters. How is that any different? If people said Hollywood shouldn't do Akira because it should be done by Japan, then according to their logic, then Toho shouldn't have done Matango because the movie is based on a western novel and the movie replace caucasian characters with Japanese characters. Also did you read the news about how Japan is teaming up with India to adapt a baseball manga into an anime and said they'll replacing baseball with cricket and move the setting from Japan to India and maybe changing the characters from Japanese to Indian. Wouldn't this be considered whitewash, or as one person joke brownwash?? the reason I debate with you and Longview (who's been annoying) because some people are not being moderate and not opening their mind. Some people aren't aware that Hollywood was not the only one whitewash Asian stuff, Japan did something similar. So how is it different. Problem I had with Longview is that he ignore my evidence of Matango or Japan and India readapting a Baseball manga to accomodate people in India. He's been throwing rant and soapboxing about Hollywood whitewash Asian stuff while he's sort of defending Asia putting Asian cast in caucasian characters. Heck I seen people using whitewash and racism to get attention, to promote pro-Asian, anti-American agenda. It just like how African Americans accuse and complain Resident Evil 5 of racism. When USA remake Asian film, haters used whitewash and racism to rant about it as I mention in my previous post. Heck, I even mention that people have accused Inception of copying off Paprika and Black Swan of copying off Perfect Blue, and yes they used whitewash and racism to justified that. Anyway, I'm not arguing with you, it just that people like Longview are not being consistent with their accusation and ranting. I don't know how casting white people as Japanese characters in Akira would be any different from casting Japanese character playing as caucasian characters in a movie based on a western novel like Matango. I like to say live-action movie/TV show based on anime/manga can be either good or bad. It's not only USA that can have horrible live-action adaptation of anime/manga, Japan can sort of wreck it too like the live-action of Negima (which was bad and should not have been done from the beginning), Gantz (which has been dumb down and it didn't even came close to it's anime/manga counterpart), and Battle Royale 2 (too many plothole and poor acting). |
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Enurtsol, I almost forgot about the Turkish version of Marvel superheroes where Spiderman is the bad guy. ![]() oh and let's not forget the Fillipino Batman. Well there's more of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyas_Batman_at_Robin ![]() Fight Batman Fight! ![]() http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyas_Batman_en_Robin ![]() |
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bradc
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This is still Hollywood in a nutshell. Actually Dragon Ball Evolution didn't do so well in America as being stereotype as Asian minority groups being "Aliens" and he should be "White". However, Dragon Ball Evolution actually did very well in Asia's box office, old news but still news regardless: animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-03-16/live-action-dragonball-opens-no.1-in-5-asian-markets Even if Goku was portrayed by Justin Chatwin being "White" American.... Canadian... Simply because the person is playing different character in a costume. How is he different from other people come from various cultures and background being in a cosplay? Itself already diminishes racism between cultures. |
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Yeah, I agreed and also I don't see Goku being played by a white person is any different from a Fillipino playing Batman (as I mention), or a Japanese playing Spiderman, or a Indian playing as Superman as Enurtsol mention. I see people complain about Goku being played by a white person so where's the complaint for a Indian Superman, Fillipino Batman, Japanese Spiderman, and Turkish Captain America. It's either people are not aware of this or it's hypocrisy as in It's bad for a white person to play as a Asian character yet it's OK for Asian and non-caucasian to play as caucasian American superheroes. |
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Tempest
![]() ANN Publisher ![]() Posts: 10446 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I will accept that you call my myopic in this case because there is some truth to it. Fact is, I simply care more about the health of the anime industry than I do about the questionable choice to relocate Akira from "Neo-Tokyo" to "Neo-Manhattan." I honestly don't give much of a damn whether this choice is racially motivated or if it is merely an attempt to "localize" the story. I've never supported the decision to localize Akira in this way, but I don't think this will ruin the movie, and I'd rather a localized Akira than no Akira at all. So yes, perhaps I am a little myopic. But that doesn't make me "Mistaken" or "Misguided." Given that this could have been a decent movie and that it could have had a positive effect on the internationally anime and manga industry, I stand by my opinion that it is unfortunately that production has been shut down. -t |
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Tempest
![]() ANN Publisher ![]() Posts: 10446 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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This is a very interesting, but I think slightly incorrect way of looking at it. First off, Hollywood has a proven track record of, at the very least, igniting huge amounts of interest in franchises, if no niche-markets. Obviously the affect is most concentrated on the franchise itself, a good Akira movie will sell a lot of Akira manga, anime movie and merch. I hope I don't need to waste time providing examples of how this has happened in the past**. As for the effect on the market, anytime a particular franchise breaks out into the mainstream in a big way, there is always some benefit to the niche. For starters, there's direct benefit, the Akira rights holders will have more money, which will in part, make it's way into production of more titles. Indirectly, some of the people who check out the Akira anime or manga after seeing the movie will say "Hey, this Japanese stuff is cool, I want more!" Finally, a successful adaptation will increase the chance of other Hollywood producers jumping on the bandwagon. Again, since this is a very common phenomenon, I hope I don't need to provide examples**. As for the comparison to online streaming. Apples & Oranges, along with some misunderstanding of the problem there. Streaming makes titles more accessible, but it doesn't put them in front of the mainstream eye the way a Hollywood movie does. There's no reason to think that streaming results are in any way indicative of what will come from a Hollywood movie. Secondly, your argument that streaming hasn't helped sales is a bit of a stretch. For starters, sales aren't tanking in the way most people believe (by some very important metrics, they're actually up, more on that in an upcoming feature)*. Secondly, it could be said that streaming is indeed helping increase sales figures, but it's not quite enough to overcome other issues. *I'm really sorry about this one, I would have preferred to have explained this here, but it would hurt the upcoming article. ** But I will if you insist |
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mdo7
![]() Posts: 6344 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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@Tempest: Can I ask for your opinion?? LongView has been throwing rethoric about Hollywood whitewash and racism (along with ranting and soapboxing) and saying I was wrong and he's right which I'm not going to surrender to his rethoric.
I show him evidence of Japan and other part of the world doing something similar what Hollywood did. I mention the Toei Spiderman where a Japanese actor cast as Spiderman, which he claim is different from casting a white person to play as characters in Akira and Goku in Dragonball Evolution (I don't know how casting a Japanese actor to play Spiderman is any different from a white person casting as character in Akira). I also want to mention in one of my post that Toho's film Matango was a adaptation of a western sci-fi story, the original western sci-fi story had white people when in the film, the characters are Japanese. So according to LongView's logic, that would be whitewashing, right? Is it any different from casting non-Asian actor in Akira. Also I recall the article about Japan and India adapting a baseball manga into a anime where baseball would be replaced by Cricket and the setting would be move from Japan to India, would this be his definition of whitewash and racism? Again, LongView ignore it and pretend I didn't mention it. Enurtsol brought up Indian Superman. While I brought up Turkish Captain America, and Fillipino Batman, are they any different from casting white people as Japanese characters? Because if people complain about white people playing as Asian characters, then shouldn't what I mention bold and underline get the same criticism also?? Again, I just need an opinion because I wanted to see if there any different. Because in my view, casting a white person as Asian character wouldn't be any different from a Japanese playing as Spiderman, an Indian playing as Superman, a Fillipino playing as Batman, and a Turkish person playing as Captain America or any non-white person playing as a caucasian American superheroes. |
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