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Number Six
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:55 pm
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AuraShadow wrote: |
I'm refering to the basic theory that time moves slower in space than it does on earth, thus he grows older as she stays the same.
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Nit picking, but that is not exactly how time dilation works. It has nothing to do with your location (Earth vs space). It is based on relative velocities. If you are on a space ship going very near to the speed of light, then time back on Earth is passing very quickly (by your clock), while time for you is just passing normally. To those back on Earth, time is passing normally and you have "slowed down" (by their clock). If the ship stopped relative to Earth, then time would again pass at the same rate in both places.
However, this doesn't invalidate your argument, minus any "space warp" or other science fictiony explanation.
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Fallcon
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:23 pm
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I Would like to say somthing about this,
That in the special Trailer it shows different animation and parts of the moive....
But the thing is you don't see thoses part in the movie... so does that mean there are more parts of the moives what where not put in the North American version?????
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18445
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:51 pm
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<goes back and looks at it again>
It's unlikely that anything was cut between the Japanese and American releases. It could be footage that was cut during final edits, or footage made specifically for the promo. In either case it would hardly be the first time something like that's been done, whether you're talking about anime or Hollywood productions. (Terminator 2, for instance, not only used footage which was later cut in its earliest trailers, but deleted scenes also showed up in its trading card set.)
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Whearn9999
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 211
Location: Texas City TX
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:52 pm
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Fallcon wrote: | I Would like to say somthing about this,
That in the special Trailer it shows different animation and parts of the moive....
But the thing is you don't see thoses part in the movie... so does that mean there are more parts of the moives what where not put in the North American version????? |
Well, have you ever seen an ad on TV for a movie, then went to see the movie, then notice that some scenes in the ad weren't in the movie? Movie makers sometimes use early footage to put together a trailer. Later, some of those scenes are edited out and never make it on the finished product. I suspect that it is probably the same for this movie. I believe we are seeing what everyone else in the world has seen.
I loved this movie just as much as I love VODS. The beautiful scenery, compelling characters, & heart rending story. Truly a masterpiece in my humble opinion. I can't wait to see Shinkai's next work.(As well as VODS & Place Promised several more times )
(Uh...Key types faster than me)
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AuraShadow
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:35 pm
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tempest wrote: |
Realistically, people do stupid things in the name of Love. I know two 30-somethings who still get torn up about High School romances. In both cases circumstances took their "love" away from them unfairly and prematurely. In normal circumstances, when people break up, or move away, people are quick to recover, but in other circumstances, like those of my friends and those in VODS, it takes much longer for people to actually get over what happens. Obviously they don't spend every minute of their day thinking about what happened, in fact most days they probably don't even thank about it, but every once is a while something brings those memories back. It could be once a month or so, or once a year. In VODS, we only see Noburo at those times. |
Again, I think this is pure lack of experience on my part, but if that is something people do, I sure as heck have never seen it.
tempest wrote: |
Your desire for anime characters to have a brain is very similar to the false belief that likable characters mean that a show is good (I can't remember the literary term for this). |
Yeah they do! You can have pretty animation, great diaolge, but charatcers with the depth of dirt. If you have an extremly bad character design, and very bland colors, but great charcters, you would still like the anime, wouldn't you? Without charcters it would just be a slide show with music. Charcaters are the heart of an anime, and with out good ones, the anime dies. I would think you, a fellow anime fan, would know that, probably having seen many like that in watching animes.
tempest wrote: |
Many great pieces of literature are written about unlikeable people, stupid people, and/or regular people doing dumb things.
Personally I'd rather my literature and anime not pander to the lowest common denominator by making every protagonist intelligent and likable. |
SakechanBD wrote: | And besides, not all romances have to "make sense." Take one of the quintessential romances of literature, Romeo and Juliet. If you want to nitpick sense, that romance makes no sense. Just how stupid do people have to be in order to make the asinine mistakes that they did?
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I read Romeo and Juliet a few years ago for school, and that is THE most highly overrated "romance" title I have EVER come across. It wasn't even romantic, more silly than anything else. R&J is VODS taken to the extremly. Both in there cases, unessisary.
I think I should kinda rephrase what I didn't like about this anime. The idea, in THEORY is very touching, but the EXECUSSION was done all wrong. Even my friend aggreed. In her words "If the relationship had been something over a course of many years it would have been alot more touching, but people who only know each other a couple of months just don't do that." And THAT is one of the major things wrong. If I had liked this guy and got to know him for a few months and he upped and left, sure for a while I would be worried, but I wouldn't spend my time doddling about it. If he happened to sent me a letter I would be happy to hear from him, but while I had waited I wouldn't have been this little depressed person, because honestly, I wouldn't have known him long enough to have that deep of an attachment. You don't have life time attachments with people you only know for a few months, the real world just doesn't work that way, we, as humans, just don't work that way.
tempest wrote: | AND I'M A 16 YR OLD GIRL! I'm supposed to like this stuff based on my gender!
Actually, you aren't part of the target demographic for either movie.
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Anything with romance is aimed toward woman. That's pretty much an unspoken rule, and the premises of both of these movies is apparently "romance" (in this case I use quotations because this term, to me doesn't apply to this movie)
tempest wrote: |
Sorry if this looks like the staff ganging up on one person. It's mostly circumstantial that the three of us feel the same (well, that and VODS is a great show and our jobs are to recognize great shows :-p )
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oh that's alright. I'm just glad no ones being mean about it. I tend to most of the time have oppinions different than a majority on issues, so I'm used to the "ganging up" method, but you aren't doing tat at all, and I apprechaite that. I admit on my first post I was pretty mad/mean and I apologise for that.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10456
Location: Do not message me for support.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:01 am
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AuraShadow wrote: | Yeah they do! You can have pretty animation, great diaolge, but charatcers with the depth of dirt. If you have an extremly bad character design, and very bland colors, but great charcters, you would still like the anime, wouldn't you? Without charcters it would just be a slide show with music. Charcaters are the heart of an anime, and with out good ones, the anime dies. I would think you, a fellow anime fan, would know that, probably having seen many like that in watching animes. |
Likeable characters & character development are not one and the same.
There are several shows I like that feature completely boring people as protagonists, others featuring complete dicks, and yet others featuring people who are embarassingly stupid.
However, I know for fact that shows with likeable characters SELL better. But quality isn't what sells these days... So yes, you are right about the general audience.
Quote: | I read Romeo and Juliet a few years ago for school, and that is THE most highly overrated "romance" title I have EVER come across. It wasn't even romantic, more silly than anything else. R&J is VODS taken to the extremly. Both in there cases, unessisary. |
I hate Romeo & Juliet. I wrote a college paper on why it sucks balls.
Quote: | The idea, in THEORY is very touching, but the EXECUSSION was done all wrong. Even my friend aggreed. In |
Granted. I don't agree with you 100% here, but I definitely see your point a bit more clearl now.
Quote: |
Anything with romance is aimed toward woman. That's pretty much an unspoken rule, and the premises of both of these movies is apparently "romance" (in this case I use quotations because this term, to me doesn't apply to this movie) |
Love Hina, Maison Ikkoku, 2 examples of two very different romances that are both aimed at men. The second one is even touching.
O another note, there's also the age issue. ALthoug the protagonists are young, I suspect that the viewers who like VODS are 20+
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oh that's alright. I'm just glad no ones being mean about it. I tend to most of the time have oppinions different than a majority on issues, |
Dissenting opinions are great. Don't change.
-t
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AuraShadow
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:25 am
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tempest wrote: |
Likeable characters & character development are not one and the same.
There are several shows I like that feature completely boring people as protagonists, others featuring complete dicks, and yet others featuring people who are embarassingly stupid.
However, I know for fact that shows with likeable characters SELL better. But quality isn't what sells these days... So yes, you are right about the general audience.
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I still don't understand the difference. I've always seen likable characters as those that sell. (maybe it's because I don't watch a whole lot of regular TV as much as I used to) Could you give me some examples of what you mean by shows that have charcters that aren't particularly good but still sell? The only one I could think of MAYBE is "House" on Fox, but even then his sarcastic humor is really fun, and thus likable.
tempest wrote: |
I hate Romeo & Juliet. I wrote a college paper on why it sucks balls. |
I wish I could read that paper! I would probably laugh my ASS off!
tempest wrote: |
Love Hina, Maison Ikkoku, 2 examples of two very different romances that are both aimed at men. The second one is even touching.
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No guys I know bought the manga, only women do. The men I know don't want anything "too girly" (I guess in this case I should have used Boys instead of men)
tempest wrote: |
O another note, there's also the age issue. ALthoug the protagonists are young, I suspect that the viewers who like VODS are 20+
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THAT explains a whole lot (looks at newest poll) The majority of males in their mid-20's is overwellming....and kind of desterbing for a little girl like myself actually.
tempest wrote: |
Dissenting opinions are great. Don't change. |
I never do
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18445
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:08 am
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AuraShadow wrote: | I think I should kinda rephrase what I didn't like about this anime. The idea, in THEORY is very touching, but the EXECUSSION was done all wrong. Even my friend aggreed. In her words "If the relationship had been something over a course of many years it would have been alot more touching, but people who only know each other a couple of months just don't do that." And THAT is one of the major things wrong. If I had liked this guy and got to know him for a few months and he upped and left, sure for a while I would be worried, but I wouldn't spend my time doddling about it. If he happened to sent me a letter I would be happy to hear from him, but while I had waited I wouldn't have been this little depressed person, because honestly, I wouldn't have known him long enough to have that deep of an attachment. You don't have life time attachments with people you only know for a few months, the real world just doesn't work that way, we, as humans, just don't work that way. |
Hate to keep harping on the same point, but you're again making some false assumptions. Noboru said that he was pretty close to her "during middle school," which strongly implies a relationship lasting more like a couple of years than "a couple of months" - which would easily be long enough to forge such a strong bond. Even if they weren't together that long, is it so unbelieveable that a person could be affected for life by a fleeting attachment? I've seen it happen in real life, and it's not an unusual theme in live-action movies or anime. (See Millenium Actress or Ai Yori Aoshi, for instance.)
Quote: | Anything with romance is aimed toward woman. That's pretty much an unspoken rule, and the premises of both of these movies is apparently "romance" (in this case I use quotations because this term, to me doesn't apply to this movie) |
Ever watched Ai Yori Aoshi or read the manga? That's one of the better anime romantic comedies out there, yet it's undeniably targeted primarily at male audiences. (The fan service in the manga alone should be proof of that.) As you watch more anime, I think you'll find that there are many other romantic anime out there which are aimed at male audiences or, at worst, are designed to appeal to both genders. (Then there's Koi Kaze, but I'll be damned if I can figure out who the target audience was there. . .)
And what's all this dissin' on Romeo and Juliet? A bit overly melodramatic, granted, but still one of the classics.
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AuraShadow
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:55 am
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Key wrote: |
Hate to keep harping on the same point, but you're again making some false assumptions. Noboru said that he was pretty close to her "during middle school," which strongly implies a relationship lasting more like a couple of years than "a couple of months" - which would easily be long enough to forge such a strong bond. Even if they weren't together that long, is it so unbelieveable that a person could be affected for life by a fleeting attachment? I've seen it happen in real life, and it's not an unusual theme in live-action movies or anime. (See Millenium Actress or Ai Yori Aoshi, for instance.)
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It couldn't have been, because remember he says that him and his friend started the plane their second year of middle school. Since middle school is 3 yrs in japan, he only had a MAX of one year knowing her.
I LOOOOVVVEEEE Millenium Actress!!! I love all of his movies actually.
Millenium Actress for it's abitliy to mix fantasy with reality to make it uitiguishable, Tokyo Godfathers for it's realism,( well the only realistic thing I've seen from him. because even Paranioa agent is odd...and this has not one bit of oddness) and Perfect Blue for it's...well...crackatude , because that ending was on crack ..read next paragraph for Aoi Yori Aoshi...
Key wrote: |
Ever watched Ai Yori Aoshi or read the manga? That's one of the better anime romantic comedies out there, yet it's undeniably targeted primarily at male audiences. (The fan service in the manga alone should be proof of that.) As you watch more anime, I think you'll find that there are many other romantic anime out there which are aimed at male audiences or, at worst, are designed to appeal to both genders. (Then there's Koi Kaze, but I'll be damned if I can figure out who the target audience was there. . .) |
(twitch) I....HATE...Ai...Yori...Aoshi...
Aoi: "Kaoru-sama, Kaoru-sama, Kaoru- *slaps Aoi* SHUT UUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPP!! That is ALL she does! I hate sexism and the traditional roles of japan. I'm sorry, but this anime sicked me, and the ONLY time I have really seemed like a Feiminist is when I lead people away from this show. I've seen all of it, and trust me, it was a pain in the ass to do. I liked the last vol but that's it. I don't think any guy in THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT TO SEE IT! It may seem like Love Hina with it's nudity (manga only) but Love Hina is on a pedistule compared to this show. I think I hated this more than VODS and TPPIOED. Pure and utter CRAP....*breaths DEEEPPLLYYY* I'm better now.
Never seen Kai Kaze, and I know no one who has either....
Key wrote: |
And what's all this dissin' on Romeo and Juliet? A bit overly melodramatic, granted, but still one of the classics. |
Because...it's overrated as being "One of the best romances of all time" when it isnt'....that's why it's bad in my oppinion.
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18445
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:15 am
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AuraShadow wrote: | It couldn't have been, because remember he says that him and his friend started the plane their second year of middle school. Since middle school is 3 yrs in japan, he only had a MAX of one year knowing her. |
Er, you're getting VODS and Place Promised mixed up here. I was talking about the former, you're talking about the latter. But concerning Place Promised, who's to say they didn't know her before they started working on the plane?
Quote: | I LOOOOVVVEEEE Millenium Actress!!! I love all of his movies actually. |
Really? That surprises me a little, since it's an excellent example of the "love based on a brief relationship" thing that you've said you don't believe in. After all, the heroine in that one only knew the painter for a few minutes, yet had her entire life shaped by that encounter.
Quote: | (twitch) I....HATE...Ai...Yori...Aoshi...
Aoi: "Kaoru-sama, Kaoru-sama, Kaoru- *slaps Aoi* SHUT UUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPP!! That is ALL she does! I hate sexism and the traditional roles of japan. I'm sorry, but this anime sicked me, and the ONLY time I have really seemed like a Feiminist is when I lead people away from this show. I've seen all of it, and trust me, it was a pain in the ass to do. I liked the last vol but that's it. I don't think any guy in THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT TO SEE IT! It may seem like Love Hina with it's nudity (manga only) but Love Hina is on a pedistule compared to this show. I think I hated this more than VODS and TPPIOED. Pure and utter CRAP....*breaths DEEEPPLLYYY* I'm better now. |
This reaction doesn't surprise me. Probably my second thought about the series - after "wow, I'm really impressed" - is that it wasn't going to sit well with American fans with a more feminist bent. Not all women are going to have that same reaction, though; I showed the series to my sister once, and she not only loved it but commented that she knew girls in high school with personalities and motivations very much like Aoi's. (A scary thought.)
As for guys not wanting to see it? I'm a guy, and I was drawn in by how right the lead characters are together. It isn't about the woman pandering to the man or how Aoi's a dream woman, either. Kaoru had his own issues, as do most of the other female cast members, which gave the series more depth than series of this type normally have. Most importantly, though, the scenes where Aoi and Kaoru embraced just made me melt. I can't be alone in this reaction, either, since Ai Yori Aoshi was a surprise smash hit on both sides of the Pacific.
Oh, well. Different tastes for different folks, I guess.
Quote: | Never seen Koi Kaze, and I know no one who has either.... |
It's a serious, incredibly tender, and exceptionally well-written romance about forbidden love (specifically incest). If the concept doesn't freak you out too much then it's well worth seeing.
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AuraShadow
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:10 am
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Key wrote: |
Er, you're getting VODS and Place Promised mixed up here. I was talking about the former, you're talking about the latter. But concerning Place Promised, who's to say they didn't know her before they started working on the plane? |
Meh, they all act the same, and I didn't care to memorise thier names, so yeah, I don't care but thanks for correcting me.
Key wrote: |
Really? That surprises me a little, since it's an excellent example of the "love based on a brief relationship" thing that you've said you don't believe in. After all, the heroine in that one only knew the painter for a few minutes, yet had her entire life shaped by that encounter. |
Millienum Actress is a good example of this type story being executed in the proper way. Instead of being closed off, she continued to persue her movie carrer and hope one to find by. Plus the style of the movie is just fantasitc. The abiltiy to mix relality and fiction made me, at times question her age. Maybe in some strange way she COULD be 1,000 years old. Anything in anime is possible... VODS and this movie were boring..nothing to keep me WANTING to watch it. I can't sit there listening to people talk for 40 mins with out ANY action. I don't care what it is, but anything besides hearing people talk the entire movie. It's like a long lector with music and pictures. (Not good for me considering I have ADHD sometimes...or atleast adult ADHD where it isn't as bad as the regular kind, but if there is nothing to hold my attention I will turn it off.)
Key wrote: |
This reaction doesn't surprise me. Probably my second thought about the series - after "wow, I'm really impressed" - is that it wasn't going to sit well with American fans with a more feminist bent. Not all women are going to have that same reaction, though; I showed the series to my sister once, and she not only loved it but commented that she knew girls in high school with personalities and motivations very much like Aoi's. (A scary thought.) |
And I feel sorry for those girls. They are more likely to be in abusive relationships because they beileve because they are women that they have a specific role. If they are like Aoi, as you say, they must have VERY low self confidence. I couldn't stand being that type of person (or being around them for that matter) who accept things the way they are and don't want to be anything more than a servent to thier husbands (which Aoi CERTAINLY had a great interest in being) It's sickining to have an anime where a girl is content in a role that hasn't been dominient in amercia since the 60's. I wish Japan had the same types of movement for womens rights as america, but still, an amercian girl actually liking this anime is a disgrace and a betral to our gender and the progress we have made at being accepted as being equal to men.
Key wrote: |
As for guys not wanting to see it? I'm a guy, and I was drawn in by how right the lead characters are together. It isn't about the woman pandering to the man or how Aoi's a dream woman, either. Kaoru had his own issues, as do most of the other female cast members, which gave the series more depth than series of this type normally have. Most importantly, though, the scenes where Aoi and Kaoru embraced just made me melt. I can't be alone in this reaction, either, since Ai Yori Aoshi was a surprise smash hit on both sides of the Pacific. |
Like VODS, the idea is nice, but executed COMPLETLY WRONG. I like the fact that they wanted to over come thier families differences (and Kaoru's past) but as I have said, Aoi's wanting to weigh on Kaoru's ever whim is quite frankly disgusting.
Key wrote: |
It's a serious, incredibly tender, and exceptionally well-written romance about forbidden love (specifically incest). If the concept doesn't freak you out too much then it's well worth seeing. |
I might check it out. I'm kinda collecting all of the mangas I can get before "the dry season" with anime (basicly the time between my birthday and christmas. because my birthday is in June, so I'm getting all of the anime and manga I can before I run out of birthday money and enter "the dry season"..which I'm planing on getting my last 2 today. Negima vol 6 and Gunslinger Girl vol 3 because I just got Princess Ai vol 2 yesterday.)
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marui
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 8
Location: living in a van down by the river...
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Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:39 pm
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Quote: | VODS and this movie were boring..nothing to keep me WANTING to watch it. I can't sit there listening to people talk for 40 mins with out ANY action. I don't care what it is, but anything besides hearing people talk the entire movie. It's like a long lector with music and pictures. (Not good for me considering I have ADHD sometimes...or atleast adult ADHD where it isn't as bad as the regular kind, but if there is nothing to hold my attention I will turn it off.)
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I have ADHD and i loved VODS and places promised. and you cant have ADHD sometimes, its a 24hr thing. Sorry i just hate when peopel use something like ADHD as a excuse not to like something.
I do think that all your points are vallid in that its stupid to hold onto something, but we as humans cant help but hold on to somethings, even when doing so is not the right thing to do. the characters in VODS and places promised, to me struck as very life like, there was alot of depth to them. They experienced true love, then lost it. I suppose to really appriciate these two animes you have to experience true love then lose it, but its good to have different opinions because it keeps things interesting!
Millenium Actress, great anime, Romeo and Juliet(even thought its a classic, and i appriciate the impact it had on our culture) didn't like it. ah well.
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NekoRydia
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 2
Location: Fuzzy
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:41 am
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I like Jello!! It goes swirly in my tummy!! yay!! I have seen everything mentioned and i must say Koi Kaze "is a strange combination of pleasure and pain". I'm not saying Aura is heartless. I think she's got a protective wall put up around her heart and I dont blame her because i've had a few relationships also and i know how they can end. Some better, some worse.
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NekoRydia
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 2
Location: Fuzzy
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:45 am
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Oh, I'll play your game you rouge. I'll take therapists for twenty.
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GrantM1
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:52 pm
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I'd buy this, I mean I've got Voices Of A Distant Star on DVD
But ADV have to use Jessica Boone in the dub, now I can't buy it now
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