Forum - View topicBest Rivals/Adversaries Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18578 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Final Four: Tournament Finals is now closed.
Final results can be found here. And then there were but two. One who was expected, and one who wasn't (but probably should have been). One is the ultimate in cerebral one-on-one rivalries, the other is the ultimate in bloody, super-powered group rivalries. One has a Death Note, the other has a scroll that may as well be considered the same thing given the way things play out. Both are so intense and high-stakes that they can only be finally resolved by death. Both also have a similar minor weakness (a tendency towards melodrama), so this will have to be a conflict of strengths. Who will prevail to seize the title? Finals Light Yagami vs. L, Death Note 
vs. Kouga vs. Iga clans, Basilisk 
Last edited by Key on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3991 Location: New York state. |
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For this final bout, I think I'll be siding with the Kouga and Igaas the winners of this tournament overall. While both rivalries in this Final Round are legitimately heated and both parties acknowledge one another as threats in both rivalries, I do feel that the melodrama from Light and L's feud comes across as a bigger weakness in this final match, particularly thanks to spoiler[the Xanatos Roulette pulled by Light to get over L in later episodes of Death Note] which stretches believability to its breaking point compared to the more grounded, bloody and personal animosity which the two ninja clans in Basilisk have against one another.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Minigame results. Kudos to Unicorn_Blade for being the only person to correctly pick the Kouga and Iga clans to make it to the final.
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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What I've heard about the Basilisk rivals has definitely been enough to put that series on my radar. However, I have had reason to vote against them in previous rounds because I felt they were against a rival at least equal to them (though without having seen either series in question, it is hard to say anything definitively).
However, I've always felt that Light vs L has been the definitive anime rivalry. It makes the series what it is, something which is very noticeable spoiler[after L's death, when everything falls apart and becomes boring and beyond contrived]. They aren't perfect but when they are at the top of their game, these rivalries are without equal. I never have a round where I considered voting against their competition for long and this final round is no exception to that. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I'm voting for Kouga and Iga because I have never been impressed by Death Note that much and I doubt I will ever be. The rivalry is to a certain extent entertaining, but I think it is overrated.
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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My vote undoubtably goes to Light vs. L. I've seen both series but I don't even have to think about it twice. They are both high-stakes rivalries, both fighting for their lives but Death Note is also for the future of the world. Both are intense, but with the deaths of the main characters common and expected in Basilisk the edge is taken off. When it comes to mutual acknowledgement and rivalry establishment, I don't think any match up surpasses these two.
A big weakness of the Basilisk rivalry is what makes it a great series: that the clans' respective leaders don't want to fight. Circumstances and their revenge-hungry comrades destroy the peace against Oboro and Genosuke's will. This both helps and hinders their merits as it shows how blood-thirsty and hateful each side is, but because of their leaders resistance many battles are confined to one-on-one and their full rageful revenge isn't able to be released as a group. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7360 |
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Like I said last time, I'm going for the Koga and Iga Ninja Clans. Basilisk's rivalry is quite similar to Death Note's in that they take up most of the series and we do get to see them all the way through. But the Ninja clans are far more than just a simple Pokemon battle where you throw out one or two per team and have them fight, there are dynamic relationships within the teams that react to events in the series. I think this makes the rivalry much stronger in my opinion as the team as a whole and as individuals react to each movement on both their team and the other team.
In addition, these two sides are so desperate to fight that they elect to not tell spoiler[their clan leaders, who are in love], lest it be stopped before it even begin. I feel like few rivalries feel the need to ensure that they happen in the first place, most just kinda happen, but here, the teams make sure this happens. These sides have always hated each other and now that the fight standstill is over from a legal standpoint, they won't let something like love stand in their way. Light and L have a great rivalry too, but it's always bothered me how L spoiler[has suspicions of Light but never acts on them], it makes me feel like Light is taking this more seriously than L, whereas both Ninja clans are equally in this at all times. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Both conflicts are tense, dynamic, and enveloping, such that I can't choose based on which battles, whether physical or mental, are better. As such, I will look to the flaws.
I think the greatest flaw in the Death Note rivalry is that it is introduced with the pretense of moral ambiguity. Throughout the series, members of the task force question whether they are doing the right thing, on account of Light's methods working to lower crime. I cannot accept the story trying to force the narrative, and consequently the ideological aspect of the rivalry, in this direction when it treats the Death Note as the same type of corrupting force as the magical ring in Plato's story of Gyges, which did so to demonstrate the corrupting influence of power in the hands of an otherwise good man. Tris points out the weakness in Basilisk being that there are forces that would work to resolve the conflict peacefully, and eventually eliminate it. A serious detriment when considering the nature of the tournament. However, I am inclined to view the flip-side of that argument: that despite the power of love, the two clans' mutual destruction grinds on. As such, my choice is for The Kouga and Iga ninja clans. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I'm going to vote for Light and L.
The Basilisk rivalry is very, very strong, I do not dispute that. It definitely deserves to be here in this final match, and I am delighted that it has made it. But no other rivalry in Anime has captivated me as much as the one between Light and L. Here are two intelligent, driven, idealistic young men who in another world, another situation, could have been best friends and the strongest of allies. Each is the only one who can truly understand the other, and each feels that only the other is worthy to face him. The word 'fate' is often applied to Basilisk, however Light and L are so incredible it is like they were destined to be rivals. And that is why I believe they deserve to win. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18578 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Guess I should get around to voting here.
I've been convinced since the early stages of the Nominations phase that these are the two strongest contenders in the tournament, though I didn't expect the Basilisk rivals to actually be able to push past the more popular Princess Tutu rivals. (And in how many other anime forums could you say that PT is the "more popular" of these two? If only I had gone with who I think should win instead of who I thought would win there. . .) The mental gymnastics that Light and L go through to try to outwit each other, and how clearly and indisputably two-sided their rivalry is, has made them very, very tough to beat; in fact, I'll have to check my records on this, but they are at least very close to being one of the strongest contenders ever on power rankings. But in the Kouga vs. Iga clans rivalry they finally have a foe who can match them. The ninja clan rivalry's deep roots and fully-established, two-sided nature are indisputable, and the bloody, visceral, emotional way they confront each other counterbalances the constant duel of wits in the DN rivalry. The fact that there are personal conflicts and grudges within the overall conflict gives the clan rivalry a multilayered feel, too. The tiebreaker for me is something I mentioned in the previous round: that the weight of the rivalry is so great that it crushes the peaceful dreams of those who earnestly try to stop it. The final video clip shows how Oboro spoiler[has to resort to putting an end to her own kinsman] to bring the conflict to an end, and even that doesn't ultimately prevent a tragic final resolution. Honestly, though, these two are close enough in relative strength levels that I think voting here largely comes down to a matter of either personal preference. |
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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Excellent  . I would have never imagined they would actually make it this far, and seeing how y other favourites died pathetically early in the tournament, this at least is a bit of a consolation.
And it is not going to be a surprise, I am voting for Kouga vs Iga. Because although it seems like a stereotypical "Lets fight until one last man standing" story, it actually made me care about every single one of the clan members, even those who got finished off in the first few episodes. And because I cared, they get the vote. L and Light were smart and the rivalry is entertaining and intelligent, a battle of minds, but it looses when it comes to the conflict resolution. Light ultimately wins spoiler[not because of his intelligence, but a stroke of luck.] And while luck plays an important part in the Iga/Kouga conflict, the characters have only their own power to help themselves. And it was great to see all the internal conflicts within the clans too- those who were in favour of a truce, those who though that it was a better option, but who at the same time resorted to fight in order to survive, and those who actually took real pleasure in killing. |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4640 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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So, sorry, I really ended up losing interest in this tourney, I found myself not caring who won each match so I stopped voting, but I might as well vote in this final round.
Although I have no special love for the series and considered voting against this one because the show already has a tourney win, in the end I'm going with Light and L.Dtm's reasoning is a good way of looking at the reason I like their rivalry. For me, the Basilisk pairing fails with the "only if"/ "in another situation" aspect because, in the end, the ending was inevitable. They make you think there's a chance for change, for reconciliation, but ultimately there was none. It isn't Romeo and Juliet, if anything it's Troilus and Cressida- the flawed play that's a bit confusing and gloomy with a misleading title and rivals that are headed for a rather unsatisfactory resolution. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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That's an outright lie, and you know it. spoiler[Light knew that Rem was in love with Misa and that she would sacrifice herself to protect Misa from L by killing him. He was counting on Rem to do this. And Rem knew that he knew, but killed L anyway. And Light knew that Rem knew, but both knew that only Light could make Misa happy and therefore Rem couldn't kill him without making her own sacrifice completely impotent and void. Therefore, he was safe from Rem and used Misa as bait so Rem would take down L while giving him an alibi. Oh, and it also meant he got Rem out of the way, as despite her predictability in this sequence she was highly dangerous to Light long-term.] Besides, the exact manner in which the rivalry is resolved is hardly important compared to what when before. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18578 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Even though I'm still voting the other way, I do agree with both of dtm42's points here. |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Throwing my vote behind Light vs. L. Both rivalries have high stakes are full of intensity, but I kept help but think that the DN rivalry burns brighter in both of these areas. It is unfortunate that the L vs Light ended up facing another melodramatic and over the top rivalry because this rivalry has it down to a science. Against a more serious, multi-facted, and realistic rivalry, maybe I would have voted differently. That's not to say the L vs Light rivalry isn't multi-faceted. Having only a one vs one rivalry also provides the DN rivalry an edge over a rivalry between two clans.
I also think it goes without saying that bot of these rivalries deserve to be here even the dark horse. However, it is time to put this horse down because you simply can best a rivalry in that has mastered the style of melodrama and when the strengths and weaknesses are so similar. |
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