Forum - View topicINTEREST: World Copyright Watchdog Publishes Piece on Manga Piracy
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
enurtsol
 Posts: 14876 |
|
|||||||||||
If that's their choice of global distribution medium, so be it. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||||||||
Okay, simple question: How can you guarantee that someone doesn't simply upload the translated digital manga to NyaaTorrents and then we're at the same spot as we are now other than the publishers taking even more of a loss for setting this digital service up? |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Dr. Osaka
Posts: 24 |
|
|||||||||||
|
BassKuroi
Ne careful what you post. If you have opinions that don't fall in line with the flock you'll end up censored or banned. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||||||||||
Nope, only if you're being a dick about it. Run along now. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||||||||
|
The idea that the industry needs to compete directly with pirates is, well, a pretty terrible one. No matter how much the manga industry evolves, pirates will always have the advantage of being able to offer manga for free, and without production/licensing costs to hold them back.
The manga industry could bend over backwards to accommodate the fans, and at the end of the day the last threat they'll hear is "make your work available for free or we'll keep pirating." Imagine if you told Nintendo "either change your business model to make Super Mario Galaxy free, or I'm going to be forced to pirate it." It's redonkulous. Once it gets to that point, the problem won't be industry modernization, it'll be that the piracy culture has encouraged fans to have incredibly unreasonable expectations. I'm all for modernizing the manga industry, but you can't use a desire for better access as a justification for threatening the industry with piracy. Really, the only way to deal with piracy is to crack down on it.  I'm glad the industry's moving in that direction.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
|
|||||||||||
This times a million. I try to avoid this crud, but this is the exact problem. Just think of all the people suggesting scanlators just do the translations voluntarily, which'ld kill any and all revenue to professional translators. There's an entire crazy industry based around forcing people to give stuff away for free, and it makes money for no one but the pirates and advertisers. Last edited by Paploo on Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
|
|||||||||||
That analogy doesn't work tho, because if you just watch something on TV or on a legit outlet, you're still compensating the company properly via their TV ads. It's also like if you take a book or dvd out of a library- the library paid for that book [or if an ebook, are paying a large annual subscription and royalties], and if a book is overly popular, they will buy more copies- Libraries account for a large percentage [around 20% from what I recall] of the graphic novel market's sales [Ed Chavez has said Twin Spica's success is mostly due to sales to libraries- not in people reading it there and buying their own copies, but as in libraries buying a large percentage of the printed books themsleves]. 1 copy of a book can circulate about 17 times a year at most , with no renewals or late returns. A pirated copy of the book can be circulated an infinite number of times tho, and duplicated into numerous pirated editions at numerous sites- all of whom are making money off the traffic from the scanlations/streams/torrents, as are the advertisers involved [Google made a killing on ads for sketchy counterfeit drugs for example- and just had to pay the governement $500 million as a penalty for that] So basically, it's a lot of people enjoying this stuff without compensating the creators via a TV broadcast, library circulation, ebook royalties or buying the thing itself. And a LOT of companies profitting off this traffic without compesnating the authors or licensing their works. And a bunch of jerks getting ego strokes for posting it online. Companies and creators don't mind if you borrow a library book, because that's a revenue source for them- not one based on say-so, but one with actual numbers, data and sales to back it up, and one that is within the law. When you choose to pirate something, you reward criminals financially while you steal from the creator. It's not as clean as some want to make it out to be. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
|
|||||||||||
Also, if you don't "like" then you don't have to steal it. Just buy what you enjoy, and don't steal anything, because even if you don't like it when you steal it, there's a lot of people who would be buying it otherwise or who stop buying it or going to legit venues because they can get it for free. And there's an industry that relies on those bad choices to make it's profits, which it doesn't share with creators [and if it had to, it probably could never compensate them properly- if Mangafox had to pay for actual licenses and royalties, they'd be out of business really soon. That's why VIZ and Jmanga charge what they do- authors want to be compensated, and in Japan, it's an industry standard for them to recieve equal compensation to print. The costs for digital aren't as cheap as people dream]. BTW- US companies have been posting online comic previews since the late 90's, the first 4 or so pages of a book posted online the week before it's released. Every week. They've also been posting first issues online for free of older titles for years. It's not that these companies don't get progress- it's that the progress that they're opting for is on the one that works best for them in terms of the costs involved, the preferences of the creators and how it results in sales.
DC's run into this problem with day and date digital [which most pubs don't have an issue with- and the prices matching print seem to be working for them... Chris Beveridge has posted a lot of reviews at fandompost for the curious]. Being part of Warner helps some of it, but it is a problem for them. There's also the production time- while Rin-ne managed it for awhile, it had to be put on hiatus in the end. Manga has tight deadlines, and the speed and work required to translated one title apparently took up a lot of resources- not sure how that'd work with an entire weekly magazine's worth of titles. Plus, what if the artists wanted to opt out for a better offer from a print publisher? What if they wanted to host it on their OWN site with their own translations and charge a different price? What if another website offered them a better deal, and more quality control that means the mangas posted later, but they get to take their time and approve of it all properly? The fact that manga is mostly creator-owned gives it an entirely differnet set of circumstances than Marvel or DC. One single site hosting every manga ever may be some peoples dream, but forcing every manga artist to accept the same deal and standards is a tad facist, and not to their advantage. The best you can hope for is a number of sites w/different large ranges of titles they've licensed [around 50-100 lets say], which is what we have now in Jmanga and Vizmanga.com and VIZ's assorted digital anthologies. Go support those if you want digital to grow.
VIZ did go to the WIPO and took Narutofan's domain name from them [which killed their traffic], so companies are doing things, just not in super obvious ways [just look at HTMLcomics- it took over a year of secrecy and the FBI to take them down, but comics pubs did do it- changes to copyright laws that make it easier to deal with filesharing sites around the world will probably help them on this front] |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
|
|||||||||||
Wrong side to note, it's the JAPANESE side that is of debate here. Not the US side. Puppets the lot of them. It's pretty much in the hands of the Japanese on whether or not their industry survives or not. And merely just saying "piracy is hurting us" isn't gonna win them any friends in the long run. In fact, instead of just blaming the problem, why don't they take steps to rectify it? No, throwing out lawsuits and takedown notices only inflames the fandom and drives people to seek out the source thru other means. Suggestions have been thrown out, but is scoffed. Hey, at least some of us are willing to throw out ideas to solve the problem, not try to circumvent it. What i'm trying to say is; you get more flies with honey than vinegar. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
|
|||||||||||
I'm not making an analogy between the industries, I'm explaining how the consumers feel about the product. Let me simplify it by taking the "industry" aspect out entirely: You go to a Japanese festival, there's a vendor giving away plates of yakisoba (maybe they're sponsored by the festival, maybe it's a promotional opportunity, maybe the vendor is independently wealthy, it doesn't MATTER) people will likely go and try the yakisoba BECAUSE IT IS FREE. Same scenario except the vendor is charging $10/plate instead many of the SAME PEOPLE will not get a plate because they have to pay. I'm not saying this is good for the vendor, I'm not saying the first way is good for business, I am saying ONLY that there are people that will purchase something and there are people who WOULD take/watch/read something for free but WOULD NOT buy THE EXACT SAME PRODUCT. The long standing problem for the industry is it has been trying to equate those two groups. But if you're going to honestly address the situation you must understand that "consumer" does not equal "fan" or even "buyer". You also misunderstand by assuming I'm condoning piracy with my thoughts, I am not. I'm simply pointing out that if someone says "people will support/buy what they like", you can't invalidate that by saying "that's false because hundreds/thousands/millions of people consume X when it is free, but never buy it". Those two statements are NOT mutually exclusive. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
TheAncientOne
 Posts: 1886 Location: USA (mid-south) |
|
|||||||||||
Oddly enough, that old axiom actually isn't true. as succinctly explained here: http://xkcd.com/357/ |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
|
|||||||||||
Of course it's wrong, he just skewed the results into his favor. What about white vinegar? |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
BassKuroi
|
|
|||||||||||
Thanks for the warning, man, but I'm not that interested in a forum where people with different opinions are mistreated. If I get censored or banned, I couldn't care less.
I already said that some things aren't against the law and are evil and barbaric. Some conceptions must be evaluated in a different light. A law of this kind obviously was written for the benefit of corporative interests. I definitely have no doubt about that. I think the content of a magazine belongs to me when I bought it, whatever the law says. I could be wrong, so the law, but I choose to think for myself, I'm not a sheep. But it's unbelievable how some people counter-argument using arguments that the other one didn't mean or use.
Save this "I gave it to a friend" argument, because I'm not talking about that. And the scale is not an issue if you're doing something for free, or worst, losing money.
Well, I would like to rip down the business infrastructure of the entertainment industry, but not because we can, but because that industry is sick and evil, and we don't really need it and it's crap. At least, that's my opinion. In the other hand, I don't want to compromise every possible venue for revenue an artist has, that's another different matter, because feeding corporations and feeding artists aren't the same and indivisible thing. Let's find alternatives to an artist to get paid for their hard work that don't involve parasites.
You lost me here: Why do I would care about IT industry when I use GNU/Linux in my computers? And in case you wonder, my line of work is about sharing. I'm a librarian, you know.
It's his prerogative... LOL |
||||||||||||
Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||||||||
Those "sick" and "evil" business preform a service. Why do you think so many mangaka are willing to work within the current manga system? It's because it's a lot easier to get noticed when you are being published with other manga. If a mangaka wants to self-publish he can. Look at Dave Sim, he started self publishing Cerebus in 1977, Stan Sakai created Usagi Yojimbo in the early 80's and the first series came out in 1987 (although he uses various publishers), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles came out in 1984. Alan Moore grew sick and tired of the comic publishers so he now works on his own. They have a choice, and many choose to use the mainstream publishers. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1767 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Meh, I'm one of those people that feel that fans should support the industry in their own way, so excuse me if I feel that it should be no requirement that fans buy all the manga they want to read as long as they're buying other licensed goods.
But I think if the industry were wise, at least in terms of digital manga, everyone (publishers, mangaka, etc.) would put aside whatever personal and proprietary issues they have and work together to make one site where fans can read all the titles they want for a nominal fee. The way things are set up now, I have to go to one site to read certain titles from one publisher and buy a Kindle so I can download other titles from Amazon. That's not efficient. In addition to the "free" factor, I think one reason why sites that host multiple scanlation titles are popular is that it's a "one stop shop". If I go to these sites, I can find a plethora of titles that I enjoy and be introduced to new titles that I may also enjoy. Thus far, there isn't a legal site that accomplishes this. Despite a lot of repetitive ideas/character designs/plots, it would be nice to see, one day, the majority of manga titles ever produced to be available online. On a side note, if US publishers want me to buy physical monthly issues, please offer me exactly what the Japanese get. In Japan, most monthly issues run monthly promotions, which include electronic prizes and sometimes original artwork from mangaka featured in their magazine. Offer me some chances to win some original sketches and I'll happily subscribe to your magazine. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group