Forum - View topicAbout the latest installment of KUROSUFAIYAH!
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simonsays6
Posts: 2 Location: Canada |
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First of all, I really enjoy the little round table discussion format...
And about the Canadian voice-acting industry... God. I won't pretend to know how much they make, all the benefits, yadda yadda. You Americans are so damn bitter about the Canadian entertainment industry. Film is probably the best example, but since this referred to anime, I'll leave it at that. I realize you didn't exactly say that the Canadians do a worse job, but you sure hinted at it. Really... I mean can you honestly say that Americans do a better job? Since a lot of the talent is at the same level, and if you can get the same quality dub, why not go north and grab some tax breaks? In the end, if it was actually only about money, all it means is that the Americans are overpriced, regardless of unions. If you assume you are the best, you charge more, right? |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10468 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Interestingly enough, Canada does have an actors union very similar to SAG, and not only are they similar, but they also support SAG's "Global Rule One."
I think the issue is much more one of Union vs. Non-union than USA vs Canada. I would like to know though, if the work being done at Ocean is union or not. I'll try to find out tomorrow. |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4556 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Aww... no one mentioned the You're Under Arrest dub! I like that one even more than the Cowboy Bebop dub! That's still the best non-Disney dub I've ever heard... after I got the first 12 episodes on DVD, I even listened to the dub for a lot of the TV episodes before I listened to the Japanese, and I'm very much looking forward to the ADV DVD of the YUA mini-specials, since they're using the same dub actresses and actors as AnimEigo.
As for the union/non-union part of the discussion, on a related issue, I'd love to see a photo of David Lucas and Steve Blum standing together in the same room... |
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drakh
Posts: 145 |
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ACTRA, and their branch Union of British Columbia Performers which covers the Vancouver area where most Canadian dubs are done.
It varies a lot within the US too. ADV, Funimation and Coastal Carolina are located in "right to work" states, where SAG members can take non-union work unhindered, and ADV reportedly pays better than the SAG minimum. And in LA, it does seem as if most of the VAs working on non-union dubs are in fact SAG-members, some hiding behind aliases, while others don't. I have however never heard of any SAG member being punished for working on a non-union dub. It's rather ironic... The recent "DubTrack" reviewed the .hack OVA dub, which was a union dub, and lamented the lack of Animaze's top tier talent from their previous non-union dubs. In my opinion, a non-union studio will eventually find good VAs willing to work for less pay..the main benefit of being union is that it enables the studio to build up a pool of competent VAs much quicker.
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RoundTop
Posts: 19 |
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The voice-acting world in Canada is a very close-knit community. Most VAs tend to know each other (or in some cases, are related. heh).
I will agree that the article tended to slam Canada, inferring that we had no unions and were taking away business and generating inferior works. I am not flaming, that is just the impression I got from the article. What I am amazed was not mentioned was I think the biggest difference between US dubs and JPN dubs. In japan, the SOP (standard operating procedure) is to have all the VAs in a room and do the acting together, so they can play off each other and generate a more realistic-sounding dub. In the US, for the most part, dub actors do it alone, or possibly in pairs if they are lucky. This makes for a harder time to get the emotion or drive that working in a group provides. Some companies have experimented with the JPN version and found it works well (ADV), yet still don't do it regularly. -------------------------- On a personal note... I saw the premier of the Escaflowne movie here in Vancouver, BC, Canada. A friend and I were discussing afterwards how the dubbing was good but sometimes the script itself lacked (BTW: did anyone else notice the voice of Dinobot from Beast Wars?). My friend then shut up very quickly as he realized that we were walking by pretty much all the VAs for the movie and probably a couple of the people who did the translation. Luckily we didn't get beats. |
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Aurora
Posts: 64 Location: Ontario Canada |
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that got the feeling Canada was being put down. I'm not pretending I know a lot about the industry in Canada; Most, if not all, is done in the West, like you said. In Ontario, we barely get ANY anime, its not popular at all. I think though, as you go further west, to large cities and Vancouver, they will get more common.
Union vs. Non-union. I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about this either. But I think if the actors are working together, the overall result will be a lot better. Working alone, they kind of have to imagine how the other actors are working too. |
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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Does anyone else see an incongruency in these statements? I'm not sure why, but reading Izobel's repeated cries for unionized dubs almost angers me. Almost. But that's saying a lot, considering how long I've been using message boards and how many inflammatory things I read and think nothing of on a regular basis. I happen to like being able to buy my DVDs for $25 a pop. Even less, factoring in division, for some of the boxsets and things. If the anime industry here were like the anime industry in Japan - with all unionized actors, or whatever she is suggesting they have - and I had no choice but to pay something like $50 per EPISODE, I wouldn't be able to enjoy anime nearly as much and I would probably be pissed. And I would probably bootleg shamelessly. I'm sure others probably feel the same way. Who cares whether or not the actors are unionized if a product is quality and the actors are willing to take the pay they are offered? That's capitalism. The chance and risk in making an honest buck. It seems to me that the current state of the anime industry shows that unionized acting is not necessary to produce quality dubs. The quality of dubbing in general (the acting in particular, not the editing standards) seems to be steadily, if only gradually, improving regardless of the fact that so many SAG actors do it for less-than-union pay. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't need to hear big-name actors like Brendon Frazier voicing characters in my favorite anime to acknowledge that the dub is good. The current spread of anime dubbers have shown that they can do it without expending huge amounts on talent. Why stand in the way of their progress, especially when it would likely come at our own expense? Anime may be a gold mine now (and would probably be moreso if unionized acting were the norm and DVD prices shot up), but we can't expect that to last for ever. Even if anime doesn't fade back out of the public eye per se over the coming years, it will eventually come to blend with other prevalent animation trends and cease to be what we understand it as now. Anime dubbers are accustomed to working on small budgets; a system which makes it easy for new businesses to enter the industry and also makes the final products less expensive to the consumer. I say, if they can make that work and continue to turn a profit, more power to them. If enough people come to think that their casting practices are yielding bad results, their DVDs won't sell and they'll suffer at their own hands. So yeah... The column sounds a little like a bleeding-heart plea from an underworked union actor... That aside, good column guys. At least you've inspired me to respond. 
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kenshin77
Posts: 85 Location: The OC |
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God I really hope dub only DVD's are not made here in the states. if that happens I probably would'nt buy any unless I read a review about the dub. Personally I think Dubs have not reached a level that dedicated anime fans have accepted them. I would really like to know what dub anime dvds have been released, they are probably really bad titles. Does anybody agree with me?
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Ramen
 Posts: 346 Location: San Jose |
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Now, since I really know jack squat about the dubbing industry, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Case's point. However, Case does brings up something I was thinking about when I read the newest KUROSUFIAH. As good an idea I think the feature is, this edition seemed really one sided. There was no diversity of opinions. Everyone more or less agreed on whatever the point was. (which still eludes me to a certain extent. I assume the topic was the state of the dubbing industry?)
Knowing nothing, and reading the feature, I would have to assume that there there was only one side to the argument and that, of course, the actors should be unionized. Is there another side to the argument? Case seems to think so. In short, I think two things could tighten up the feature: - more focused topics - more diverse opinions Just something to think about... |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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"- more focused topics
- more diverse opinions" Well, I'll agree about the diverse opinions bit. It did seem very one-sided this time. I suppose it's because all involved parties are either very much in the industry, about to be come a part of it, or practicaly married to a voice actor (in Izobel's case), and therefore we sympathize more with the actors who are struggling to live off of terrible pay than the anime fans who don't want to pay more for DVDs. Consider the Pokemon case, where the show brought in hundreds of millions of dollars, and the voice actors weren't paid much of anything for thier effort. Seems unfair to me. Regardless, as for "more focused topics", I thought that's what we did this time. We focused on dubs instead of a variety of things. Can you clarify this comment for me? Kurosufaiyah! is still a work in progress and we're very open to suggestion. FYI, our next topic will be digital fansubs, and we'll have a special industry guest coming in to discuss. Hope you all enjoy it! -Zac |
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Ramen
Posts: 346 Location: San Jose |
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To clarify, I know that the topic was dubs, but it was not clear to me what aspect of dubs you were really talking about. When I first heard that the topic would be dubs, I (perhaps naively) thought it would be about dubs vs. subs, since that is the ageless argument in the anime community. Obviously, the actual feature focused more on ... something else. Perhaps the status of the dubbing industry, union vs. non-union, english voices compared to japanese voices, etc.
So, it seemed to me that the topic was too broad in this case. Hopefully this is a little clearer. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4556 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Eh... dubs vs. subs has been discussed to death a thousand times over elsewhere, and, in the post VHS era, the debate is pretty much moot since at least 90% of anime DVDs have both (the other 10% being the kiddy TV stuff like Pokémon or Hamtaro, the series like the original Gundam where they couldn't secure the rights to the Japanese audio, and the sub-only series like the unedited Cardcaptor Sakura or Urusei Yatsura). Personally, if the debate had turned towards dubs vs. subs I would have stopped reading right there, since I don't think there are any new points that can be made on the subject.
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Ramen
Posts: 346 Location: San Jose |
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Heh, I totally agree. Which is part of the reason I had assumed that is what it would be about. Perhaps it was just confusion on my part, but if one person can be confused, so can others. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Nope, not at all. There are some excellent titles released here that are unfortunately dubbed only. For example, the original Gundam series was dubbed only, as well as Kimba the White Lion, and ah... the first season of Sailor Moon and stuff. Course, I wish that some of the stuff, esp Gundam, was dual language, but you can't always get what you want. |
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JETBLACK87
 Posts: 1073 |
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two questions.
has there ever been a sub only dvd in the US? and, is the special edition Speed Racer gonna be Sub/Dub? |
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