Forum - View topicNEWS: Nike Ads Spark Graffiti Complaints in Singapore
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kusanagi-sama
 Posts: 1723 Location: Wichita Falls, TX |
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Why is there such a harsh law for gum, and why is gum even treated worse than cocain? |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10471 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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http://www.cnb.gov.sg/ENFORCEMENT/index.asp?page=63 Umm, their are much more harsh with drug dealers. Anyone convicted of selling or trafficking 30 grams or more of cocaine receives the mandatory death sentence. I'm sure this further cements you opinion of the city... But how many people die in your city every year from Cocaine overdoses and cocaine related crimes? Perhaps these kinds of laws would save lives in the United States... or perhaps they would have if they'd been enacted earlier. Singapore's official stance on the drug laws in the United States is that they are "Irresponsably Permisive." The first person to ever be arrested for Cocaine possession in Singapore was a popular actress arrested in 2001, fortunately for her she had under 3 grams on her. Since then there have been more, but they are rare enough that most Cocaine busts in Singapore are very big news. As for the bubblegum, yeah, that's overly harsh IMHO. But there are reasons for it. The Singaporean government sees it this way, Bubblegum is something that doesn't exist normally in Singapore, so to get it into the country or manufacture it, it requires a pre-meditated criminal act. It's not like J-Walking, where people can just decide to do it and be doing it the next second (For a similar reference, see the difference in US law between pre-meditated murder and manslaughter). Anyways, so the person who is going to import/manufacture chewing gum ust be very motivated to do so if he's going to go through the hassle of leaving the country to import or setting up a lab to manufacture. Therefore, to dissuade this potential criminal, who is very motivated, the Singaporean government knows that a slap on the wrist won't work, so they set up laws that are equally "motivating," only, "counter-motivative." These laws are aimed at manufacturers and smugglers, most people cought with possesion get, if I remember correctly, caned. Don't forget that in the Western world, we have smuggling laws that result in some very nasty fines for bringing contraband over the border. You could easilly end up with a $10,000+ fine abd criminal record for trying to import something that would only get you a $75 ticket on the street. -t |
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jsyxx
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Yes, and I think I also win the debate aswell. Pure lunacy. Even the most hardcore Republicans don't think drug abuse is a crime worthy of death. I don't know why you're still defending them either. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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I'd say that you've hardly won the debate in question, but rather, you are too stubborn to recognize the validity of the points presented to you.
While it is certain that the laws in Singapore may be harsh, you cannot question or break down how effective it is either. If their laws were ineffective, and you could prove it as such, then I'd have whole-heartedly agreed with you that you would have won the debate, but so far, you've proven nothing |
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jsyxx
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But that was never my argument in the first place. Never once did I claim that they were inefective. My argument is that they are wrong. A year behind bars for bubble gum, death for cocaine. Are you guys serious?
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10471 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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This is Drug trafficking (30+ grams), not abuse. They aren't executing junkies, they execute people who try to bring cocaine into the country. Many countries have the death penalty for drug trafficking. Personally I think most drug dealers should be shot. And I'm way more left wing than any republican. (The American Left is quite right of center when compared to most other first world nations). And, no, I don't think you've won anything. You've yet to make a point other than repeat the same "this isn't civilized" tripe over and over. What you have established, is that you have an opinion, an opinion you have every right to, and that opinion isn't going to change. That's something worth respecting, but winning an arguement only happen when you convince other people to change their mind, or you prove them wrong (the second can't happen in debates regarding opinion). -t |
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jsyxx
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Not everyone who sells drugs deserves to be shot. Some do it to feed their children. The death penalty should only be reserved for murder.
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Those who do it in order to feed their kids? What kind of example are they setting for their children? What kind of parent takes the risk of being put in jail where they can't take care of their children once there? Saying they are doing it for their kids is one of the biggest cop outs I've ever heard. It only sounds like an excuse to me, in order for them to try to shirk their responsibility for what they are doing.
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jsyxx
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When you're black, poor, and in the ghetto you don't always have the oportunity to make a salary you can live off of. Selling crack is easy money, so some do choose it as a way to put food on their tables. This is a fact. Do I think these are good people, no. I completely disagree with the concept of selling drugs. I hate drugs. However these people shouldn't be executed. Time in jail is punishment enough.
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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While it may be easy money, it doesn't change the fact that there is almost always a way to make an honest dollar - and suggesting an easy buck to many who are poor is an insult to many of those who have chosen to work hard all their lives - there are also those who were once that destitue who have become successful and whose lives speak for themselves.
Stating it's the "easy" way suggests an alternative, which means it's not as if it's the only way. This is why I said it's a cop-out and nothing more than an empty excuse. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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What you have said is an offense to law-abiding citizens under financial stress. Reducing the punishment because of such seemingly "right" reasons (e.g. kids to feed) is encouraging criminal acts and gives a big slap on the faces of hard-working people, telling them "hey you idiots who work on three jobs and over 80 hours per week. I sell crack to feed my kids, so the judge sympathized me and sentenced me only five years behind bars. If I behave well in jail I can get paroled in three years. Not a bad deal." In addition to law enforcement, government welfare divisions and / or philanthropist organizations should build hospitals and schools, clean up streets, provide housing units, and encourage "back to school" by scholarships and tuition reduction, etc. The goal is to draw a picture of hope that you can feed your family, even become quite successful (there are numerous success stories), by NOT conducting illegal acts, no matter how poor you are when you were born. Call it carrot-and-stick, but that's not only effective but also morally correct. EDIT: I see Godaistudios beats me.
Last edited by dormcat on Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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I may have beaten you to it, but you supplemented it even more than I considered. Not bad at all, I'd say.
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jsyxx
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My point was these people don't deserve to die, not that they shouldn't get light sentences. If you think that there aren't any scenarios like the one I described in the United States, you are wrong. Government services aren't solving all the problems in the inner city. I'm not saying I agree with what they are doing, but it is reality. I don't think they should get light sentences though. For drug use, yes. The focus should be on solving their addiciton. However, for drug sale and traficing, I'm fine with lengthy sentences (well, atleast for drugs harder than Mary J which isn't even as bad as legal alcohol). If you think they should be executed on the other hand, than I have to say I really pity you as a human being. If thats anyone's opinion here, please stay away from US politics. We don't need to degenerate into a society that values control over mercy and empathy. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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It is also my opinion the the drug laws as they stand in both the US and UK are far too liberal and the sentences being handed down are proven not to work as a deterrent. |
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