Forum - View topicINTEREST: Inception's Nolan, Black Swan's Aronofsky Get DGA Nods
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18461 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I'm calling foul here. I have seen Black Swan and own and have frequently watched Perfect Blue. Not once while watching the former did I think of the latter. Any resemblance there is peripheral at best and subject to the eye of the beholder. |
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GATSU
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Key: *Yawn*. On a related note, how can it not resemble both films when even Darren admits as such?
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18461 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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GATSU: So I see you're still continuing the same tired old arguments that equate :"aint resemblance" with "clearly inspired by/patterned off of, to the point that it's a rip-off." (And yes, I know you haven't said that word-for-word in this case, but we all know what you meant.) Whatever. You pulled that crap with Inception, and I'm not going to bite on this debate any further than I already have.
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GATSU
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Key: Fine. But other than the ballet motif and the spoiler[[bad] imaginary lesbian sex], what part of Swan actually differs from PB? At least with Inception, people are able to argue it's different because it turned into an FPS shooter instead of a parade.
 I mean, they even use the phrase "perfect" and have a ballet dancer with a similar first name as the idol singer, FFS.
Anyway, if Terry Gilliam and Frodo-two people who have no stake in this situation-can give nods to Kon's stuff, I don't see why someone who (allegedly) went to Japan to visit and talk to Kon can't at least give some sort of tribute to him. I also find it a tad challenging to believe that Nolan could not have seen, or at least heard of Paprika, given that his own company was working with Madhouse on the Gotham Knight anime, and given that Kon was originally attached to the project. But, assuming he hasn't, he can't be unfamiliar with anime in general, because Leo, at the very least, most likely introduced him to some of it. So, if I were gonna play the Devil's Advocate, Paprika could've come up indirectly without Nolan knowing anything about it. Either way, though, considering Inception was viewed as a "risky" concept, it'd be nice if Chris at least showed respect to other filmmakers, including Kon, who dabbled in similar non-mainstream fare, who weren't so lucky. I'm just saying... |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6401 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I'm aware of this. But he didn't buy the rights to remake The Hidden Fortress so according to your logic, you should be complaining about that. Even if he didn't buy the right to the Hidden Fortress, at least one is complaining not even people in Japan which has a legion fo Star Wars fandom. Also if you're going to complain about Inception looking too much like Paprika, then complain about Star Wars otherwise you're a hypocrite.
Yes, Nolan also acknowledge the influence of Paprika for Inception. So why complain about Inception but not the Matrix trilogy?
What does this have to do with what I say about Asia ripping off our stuff and other part of Asia? I'm sorry that seem irrelevent.
I'm sorry, I failed to understand what you mean by Stealth "borrowed" stuff from Macross. I watch that movie and I don't see anything in that movie which look like Macross, I don't remember some of the jet turn into a mecha robot in any part of the movie.
You complain about US ripping thing off, but yet you never complain about Asian ripping off Asian and American stuff. There's a lot of controversy about Angel Beats because the main characters, Yurippe looks way too much like Haruhi even the plot somewhat almost resemble Haruhi. BTW, Dormcat told me that there are 2 eroge games that ripped off Haruhi. I seem to agree with Key. You seem to always complain about how western countries rip off Asia, but never the opposite because I can tell GATSU, you're nothing but an pro-Asian hypocrite. You always complain about America ripping off anime/manga but it's never the opposite when Asia rip off western stuff. You probably love it when South Korea rip off Team Fortress 2 and Portal. You probably said in your mind "f(bleep) Team Fortress 2, H.A.V.E Online is so much better and Valve can go to hell, f(bleep) you Gabe Newell". Geez I wonder how you'll react when Capcom Japan ripped off a American game. Are you going to say "The American version suck, Capcom rip-off made in Japan is better"? |
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GATSU
Posts: 15576 |
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Well, I'm assuming he did, because Kurosawa successfully sued the last guy who did an unauthorized remake of Yojimbo. Or at the very least, Lucas got permission to do it. But assuming he didn't, he still gave Kurosawa something better, exposure to audiences which wouldn't normally watch his films because they either hate subtitles or arthouse fare or both.
Yeah, well, they weren't complaining because they had their own sci-fi opera stuff first from Matsumoto. 
Well, we're assuming he did, because he has not contested that story. But even then, he still needs to do Kon a real favor and acknowledge him directly.
Because the Matrix helped anime, while Kon's family and/or estate has to practically give away his work for people to notice it.
My point is they have their own ideas, too, and the ripping off stuff is not the norm. I mean, how many movies have you really seen which were like The Returner?
Well, technically, it was Macross Plus, but the guy said Macross, so it's assumed he meant the former. But mentioning Macross in general is enough.
There's a difference between a blatant cash-in and a story which not only goes to the same well, but also uses a particular creator's imprint. It's what distinguishes, say, Avatar and Ferngully, from Terminator and those Harlan Ellison Outer Limits episodes, or Disturbia and Rear Window. [Don't care if the estate lost that latter case, btw, because it's still a rip-off, and it still won in the sense that it obliged Hollywood to be a bit more careful in the future.] In the former case, you could argue that the product is generic, anyway, regardless of what it copies. In the latter case, it's written with a distinct vision which makes impossible to distinguish from its newer, shinier brethren. In other words, just giving it a new paint job is not gonna cut it. You damn well better do a good job of covering your tracks, or you will get called on it. Maybe both approaches are equally wrong, but we tolerate the former, because we know it's inevitable. The latter approach, on the other hand, is reprehensible, because you're basically cashing in on someone who does not have the same connections to get discovered the way you might have had.
Actually, I don't even play those games, so I don't really care. But I will say that I'm sure there're enough fans and awareness of Valve that they're not going to be hurting over it anytime soon. The same can't be said for Kon.
Technically, it was a logo, and they said it was a subsidiary which they don't normally do business with. Either way, though, that was an American company, and not the Japanese one. 'Cus the last time the Japanese liked American product, Square bought the rights to use the patent for Gears of War. And considering that company's legacy, they're allowed to make one mistake once in a while. Update: Looks like the Japanese Swan site is up, even though it doesn't have a release date there. Oh, and like Mima, Nina also has her own blog.
BTW, it'd be nice if someone made an official translation already of this Kon blog entry where he met Darren. I hear it's a real eye-opener. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15576 |
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Ok, for now, we can at least put one of these things to rest. I talked to Nolan himself, and he said that he hadn't seen Paprika, but that he'd heard of it, and he seemed interesting in checking it out, particularly after I noted that Kon mentioned TDK before he died. Then Guillermo Del Toro [Yes, the Guillermo Del Toro who gave us the Hellboy movies and Pan's Labyrinth.] added-because he was moderating-that Kon was a "great director". So, there you have it. One helluva coincidence. Although, I'm still in the minority that at least Chris's bro is an anime fan, based on how he described the writing process between the two. John Nolan seems to be the one who explores the geekier/weird side of concepts, so it would make sense that he's the one into that stuff.
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mdo7
Posts: 6401 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Well I'm glad to see you end the argument. Please, next time don't accuse some American/western stuff of ripping off anime without some good evidence, and let fans (that include me) decide that for ourselves. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15576 |
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So I asked @foxsearchlight if Darren could possibly mention Kon on the upcoming Swan DVD/Blu-Ray, and I got PM'ed the following comment from them:
Well, how can I possibly ignore a suggestion like that?
[EDIT: Let's be clear here about one thing: this post was allowed to go through only because of the content of its quote. You have beaten this horse to death with your soapboxing, GATSU, and most in the forums are tired of it. No further posts of yours about the subject, regardless of what thread they're in, will be approved. - Key] |
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