Forum - View topic

Shiki (TV).

Another thing I just thought of- it seems to be implied that spoiler[Seishirou was bitten by Natsuno and therefore listened to his commands. But, is it not said that they would be listrning to the first one they were bitten by, which in this case would be Sunako, I suppose? Can Natsuno's bite 'override' Sunako's?]

Unicorn_Blade wrote:

Another thing I just thought of- it seems to be implied that spoiler[Seishirou was bitten by Natsuno and therefore listened to his commands. But, is it not said that they would be listrning to the first one they were bitten by, which in this case would be Sunako, I suppose? Can Natsuno's bite 'override' Sunako's?]

I think, yes. It was heavily implied that Toshio’s second bite was made by Natsuno and it freed Toshio from Chizuru’s control. However, I doubt that Seishirou has ever been bitten by Sunako. Tatsumi said that Seishirou was the first human who accepted Sunako, so I don’t think biting him was necessary.

I actually thought that chronologically Natsuno was the first to bite him, thus making himself the fist person who would make Toshio obedient to himself. Therefore, Chizuru's bite did not matter- maybe they made it more explicit in the manga, I can't remember where I have seen it.

Quote:

I actually thought that chronologically Natsuno was the first to bite him, thus making himself the fist person who would make Toshio obedient to himself. Therefore, Chizuru's bite did not matter- maybe they made it more explicit in the manga, I can't remember where I have seen it.

For the manga, spoiler[Natsuno did indeed bite Toshio to prevent him from being affected by any of the other vampires]. As a matter of fact, it looks like the anime switches the order of particular events that occurred in the manga and even left out some key details regarding the vampires or any of the villagers. For example, spoiler[the grandpa of the junior monk seen during the middle of the hideaway slaughter desired to be a vampire in the manga because his health condition rendered him paralyzed from the neck down. Unfortunately, turning vampire doesn't heal you of any inflictions you had before being turned.]

spoiler[When Toru released the girl that told the humans where the Shiki were hiding. Somehow she survives an onslaught from like 6 wild dogs?]

But then, what is with all this ridiculous remembering important details randomly for no apparent reason other than to move the plot along crap? You guys did that earlier and I let it slide, because people do sometimes do that (though rarely for extremely important moments, let alone extremely obvious details).

spoiler[So you randomly remember there is a secret underground basement in the castle?] No way. That's ridiculous. How could you possible forget something so important until this very moment. What a terrible plot device. That was clunky and immature storytelling at its finest.


And why is the Shiki resistance so weak? They are obviously stronger, faster, and quicker. You have personal ties that you could manipulate; the same personal ties you used to hamper victims at the end.

Why didn'tspoiler[ Seishirou shoot the Doctor] two episodes earlier? He should have been dead. He's not wearing armor or anything of like, hell he's been standing in the open.



And what the hell has Wolf Boy been doing this far? He's been drinking from thespoiler[ Monk] every night making him so weak he could hardly protect anyone, and it doesn't seem like you have done a thing. Silly.

spoiler[When Toru released the girl that told the humans where the Shiki were hiding. Somehow she survives an onslaught from like 6 wild dogs?] What? Bullshit.
After surviving that onslaught,spoiler[ she goes back and tells the village where the okiagari were. They JUST freed your ass when they weren't supposed to and by all means should have eaten you?] I felt like that was a terrible betrayal. Okay, okay, you could argue that it might, might have made sense psychologically to betray your home-girl, so I'll let that one slide.

But then, what is with all this ridiculous remembering important details randomly for no apparent reason other than to move the plot along crap? You guys did that earlier and I let it slide, because people do sometimes do that (though rarely for extremely important moments, let alone extremely obvious details).

spoiler[So you randomly remember there is a secret underground basement in the castle?] No way. That's ridiculous. How could you possible forget something so important until this very moment. What a terrible plot device. That was clunky and immature storytelling at its finest.

And to make matters worse. All of the Shiki deaths and problems were highly chance. spoiler[Okay, so Seishirou just somehow happened to be sitting right where the Jinrou girl was going to move next?]

And why is the Shiki resistance so weak? They are obviously stronger, faster, and quicker. You have personal ties that you could manipulate; the same personal ties you used to hamper victims at the end. And no matter how I look at it, most of those villagers (with the exception of a people, like the Big Guy and the Doctor) should still be susceptible (at least they would be if they are real human characters and not just being used as a plot device) to some of your damage.

And no, I'm not buying anymore of Sunako's angst. Yes, I understand her angst and I even sympathize with it. But now Sagacious I agree with you now. She is being retarded. She is spoiler[hundreds of years] old. The experiences she should have gathered should make her nearly unstoppable. No matter where she stopped developing at, the human brain is powerful. There are children with IQs that are extremely high, the only thing stopping them is experience. Anyway, why is she angsting over a situation that she implied she hadspoiler[ been through before.] ? It's baffling when you really think about it.[/spoiler]

And what the hell has Wolf Boy been doing this far? He's been drinking from thespoiler[ Monk] every night making him so weak he could hardly protect anyone, and it doesn't seem like you have done a thing. Silly.

unicorn blade

They did not just randomly remember about the secret cellar- as a matter of fact they never said: Oh, btw, there is a secret cellar in the castle. What they did say, is that going through the whole thing again and again, they someone remembered that there were trucks removing a lot of ground before the Kirishikis moved in, which might mean that there is a secret room in the basement. It is not a kind of detail that comes to your mind first of all.

darkhappy1
He was waiting there the whole time. The girl was running all around the village. They were bound to meet at some point.

unicorn blade

I think that the resistance was quite weak since once Seishirou and his wife were gone, and since their population was made up of a lot of weak ones, they were quite easy to harm and difficult to organise. A lot of them panicked. A lot of them had no idea what to do with their leaders gone. A lot of them became easy targets since they considered themselves invincible, and that turned out not to be so very true. Look at the irritating teen who used to follow Megumi- he was a okiagari for quite a while, and so what, no fighting skills or guts or whatsoever. And a lot of shiki were like this. Would you give them a few months, maybe they would be harder to face.

darkhappy1
Seishirou did not shoot the doctor earlier, because Natsuno got in the way.

darkhappy1
Possibly because she's now losing people close to her, like Chizuru. I would assume that past attempts were like this: "Move in. Slowly kill people. Gather Shiki. Kill everyone off more quickly. Fail at the last step. Run with the Merry Kirishiki Family and Co." And now her brain is more scrambled up than before because that last step isn't all that good anymore.

Master marksman? Heck of a hyperbole, no? Did he ever mention he was a master marksman? Did you get a Golgo 13 vibe from him or something?

You seem to mention the doctor's intelligence, yet you don't mention the extremely low amount of sleep he has gotten the past few days/weeks, which could easily cause him to make a few missteps in his leadership. At least, I don't know about you, but when I'm really tired I cannot use my brain to the best of my ability.

And yeah, I can honestly believe that about the castle. Because he remembered it as soon as someone else mentioned the Kanemasa castle, meaning he was probably going through in his head any possible rooms that went unchecked as well as any information he could remember about it. I also remember stuff out of the blue all the time. It's not a strange phenomenon whatsoever in my opinion.

Also, who said she wasn't going to get on the roof of the next building? She encountered brainwashed-Seishirou right after she split up with the two other shiki after all.

Odds are Natsuno didn't plan on a jinrou just wandering by, but rather for Sunako to call on the jinrou in a search for Seishirou (since it's pretty obvious that she harbors some affection towards him), but hey, it happened. Not too hard to believe in a small village like that.

And their is no reason story wise to turn him into an idiot who misses large details. (he surely tested every small little thing on his wife)

The first thing I would've done was sit down and think about all the secret possible places in a castle. It's too unbelievable to figure it out randomly, and they only did it to move the plot along. A plot device at its finest.

Okay, I might be able to accept this. But the idea of the Shiki being overconfident and not coming up with a plan B is strange in the first place. Apparently, they have failed many times before at this step. It's absurd to even think that you would win without two or three backup plans, if you really think about it.

What kind of a master marksman/assassin does not wait to kill the Doctor, the leader, first and foremost? I mean, he has a sniper, it was implied that he was up their for a while.

Oh I almost forgot to ask. Did they ever explain why they left the Doctor alive in the first place and not kill him? I understand the Junior Monk, that makes perfect sense.

I absolutely loved the spoiler[ fire ]. It completely caught me off guard. It added a wonderful spoiler[nobody wins ] element to the show that I was hoping they would have, but kind of gave up hope that they would. Sweet.

But why did it happen? Did they say? I missed that. Ehh, if it didn't, it was awesome enough for a 'nature did it!' explanation.