×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Do you think anime/manga will become a new scapegoat?


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6750
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:22 pm Reply with quote
All right, I've seen a lot of people blaming school shooting on things like video game, music, and movies. But I'm worried what if anime and manga become next to be blame for school shooting, terrorism, and other crimes. I keep seeing anime haters on youtube taking their hate on anime to maybe the next level. I'm worried that most of the anime haters may turn to politics, psychology research, and becoming lawyers so they can bash anime and probably legislate them. In other word, we may get a new Jack Thompson but for anime. We haven't seen a lot of anime getting blame yet, even though some did:

-Deathnote has been blamed for a murder in Belgium (manga murderer), and also kid bringing fake deathnote notebook to school.
-Naruto has been blamed for the kid burying his head in the sand.
-in Taiwan, a suspect blamed Battle Angel manga for his murder.

Now after Halo Legends has been announced, and also the anime adaptation of Wolverine and Iron Man. Anime haters have took the hate of anime to a dangerous level. I've seen anime haters threatened to boycott Halo 3 ODST, and also have threatened to not buy anymore Comic from Marvel. Some anime Haters have threatened to bring back Jack Thompson if more Western games like Tomb Raider, or Grand Theft Auto ever become a anime. I'm afraid they may repeat what the video game basher/haters did for video game.

Are any of you worried that anime/manga may become the new "blame" game/scapegoat???

I can imagine anime haters saying this (without no evidence):

-Gunslingers Girl blamed for Child Soldier
-Harem anime blamed for Warren Jeff's polygamy.
-Code Geass would be blamed for IRA's terrorist attack in England.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:31 pm Reply with quote
The number of anime lovers is overwhelming.
I'd say you're seeing things in a very pessimistic light.
Things like that been happening in Japan over and over, but that was never a great deal for them, so I doubt whatever anime haters over here would say or blame, it wouldn't affect the japanese industry.
Besides there're billions out here, we are bound to face a few lunatics and retards along the way, you just happened to meet a few.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:58 pm Reply with quote
The term hate crime is meant for this kind of behavior.

Therefore, if you think that there are those who are hating anime unreasonably so, to a point that they "Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction." Please do feel free to "call the police and seek assistance," when "One of the responsibilities of your police service is to offer you help and advice with respect to any form of hate crime."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Dark Paladin X



Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:27 pm Reply with quote
Well, all I can say is this. I'm guessing there are people who are too naive and just want to imitate things they see. But it's mostly up to the parents' responsibility on monitoring what they watch, not some government or media watchdog group. On top of my head, I'm mostly think that the ultra-conservative xenophobic groups are interfering with what anime can or cannot be distributed. I mean, who do you most of the people who don't want to see Kodomo no Jikan in the U.S. are, people who accept other cultures and society, or those who are uber xenophobic and unable to accept different ideas?

When it comes to tragic things, surprisingly, guns are usually the number one thing (the second would most likely be video games). I'm guessing there is currently some Jack Thompson targeting anime and manga and blaming the Japanese for nearly everything. Sure, Japan is well known to have some of the most violent video games, anime, and manga in the world, but violent is relatively rare (although I could argue that Japan is culturally less violent than many western countries).

Someone or somebody will always use anime or manga as a scrapegoat for anything like blaming them because one anime may portray a gay/lesbian character in a positive or claiming that Pokemon is blasphemous because it promotes theory of evolution/Satan/Zionist conspiracy/etc (of course, those who know Pokemon really well, the concept of evolution in Pokemon is completely different from the actual theory of evolution from Darwin). I would not be surprised how the most socially conservative Christian groups will respond if Disney decides to release To Aru Majutsu no Index in the U.S.

You're always to get stupid people who do stupid things, and you always going have someone commit crimes, but you can level how often the crime can occur. However, you can't just solely blame anime and manga for someone killing another person, there are other factors to murder and crime that can be fixed (guns, hunger, poverty, and drugs) and those that cannot be fixed (cultural perspectives, ethnicity, pop culture, media, etc).

Speaking of Jack Thompson, those who solely blame a certain aspect of media, culture, specific ethnic/religious/sexual group, etc. for everything will eventually get their asses served into themselves (such as Jack Thompson being disbarred and Fred Phelps getting himselved banned in the U.K.).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Mushi-Man



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1537
Location: KCMO
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:15 pm Reply with quote
It seems unlikely, the reason why those other media have gotten so much heat is because they are so popular. They're easy targets because they're so big. Anime in the western world (and arguably in Japan even) is seen as a sub culture thing. Video games, music, and movies are much more well known and most people have used them before. The chances of the parent watch organization across the world suddenly deciding to go after a little sub culture like anime is unlikely (usually).

That being said anime has developed a bad rep, not as bad as video games and movies, but still bad. Lets not forget all the claims about Higurashi being connected to murder cases in Japan. And Chain actually banning Death Note. And if I remember correctly back in the 90's OVA boom there was some controversy around anime. But I think at this point anime does not have the right qualifications to become a real scapegoat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
zawa113



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7360
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:59 pm Reply with quote
I have a somewhat interesting add-on question to this, if it were to become a scapegoat, do you think it would actually be a bad thing? Just look at what's happened with the other scapegoats, the Fox News Mass Effect report only made its sales go up, Bully certainly didn't suffer from Jack Thompson going crazy on it before it was even released (although being released late in the console's life might've) and I'm pretty sure the Hot Coffee thing only made more people buy San Andreas in a big rush before it got taken off the shelves and replaced with the code-less one and it certainly hasn't hurt the sale of any of the other GTA games. The lesson here seems to be that any publicity is good publicity because it means you are getting noticed and the worse things they say about you, the more curious it makes me and the more I want to check it out. If it becomes a major scape-goat, it might move out of a sub culture and either just become larger or more mainstream (which would result in more weeaboos, but also more shows getting licensed and shown on TV over here, take your pick)

I have a feeling if it did that Miyazaki would get quite a few stares because everyone assumes he makes children's movie only and then they'll start to whine and complain when they don't check the back of the box for Princess Mononoke, rather how people were upset because an M-rated game got released on the Wii to begin with. Death Note seems to be an anime that is popular with both casual and more hardcore anime fans that would be easily and harmlessly imitateable, the more they blame it, the more people will become curious and check out at least one anime series which will hopefully lead to many more.

However, the question here is if it's a suitable candidate to even be a scapegoat, at least in America. I'm thinking, yes to some degree, being non-mainstream hasn't affected people blaming metal music for "youth corruption" and there will certainly always be enough psychotic people to take any given idea far enough to get media attention and then blame it on something else. On the other hand, I don't think it's likely to happen any time soon, video games are still serving perfectly well as corrupting scapegoats and with less anime on TV, it'll be a little more difficult to find something some idiot can imitate. On the plus side, like the Wii, all animated things are for children, so if we'd really want media attention for anime, we'd just need to show some overly protective PTA group or crazed and equally incompetent non-disbarred lawyer Princess Mononoke (preferably right after Spirited Away or Ponyo) and get someone to claim it as "corrupting" since it is animated and therefore for children and see where that leads. Oddly enough, some adults still don't seem to know South Park isn't for kids.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Maryohki



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 526
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:58 pm Reply with quote
It's always possible, but doesn't really worry me. Honestly, some people already use anime as a scapegoat. Regardless, it really won't make any difference in the long run. The most that will happen is that these angry parents will keep their own children from watching anime. No laws will be made banning every anime ever.

Honestly, the video game thing isn't even that bad. It's just a bunch of loud people complaining. In the end, nothing really happens to the video game industry because of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:08 pm Reply with quote
Anime is my scapegoat for not having a girlfriend.
See? One more has joined the scapegoating ranks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
the Rancorous



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:22 pm Reply with quote
Maryohki wrote:
Honestly, the video game thing isn't even that bad. It's just a bunch of loud people complaining. In the end, nothing really happens to the video game industry because of it.

I actually wrote a 6-page argumentative paper on the subject of violent video games and legislation that people have tried to pass against them as well as the ESRB committee, and let me tell you; based on the research I did there, we can rest assured that this 'scapegoat' trend will not have any effect on... well, pretty much any form of medium. FACT: several states, in the last decade or so, have indeed tried to pass strict legislation against M-rated games for their own state; every case was thrown out of the court, ruled as 'unconstitutional.' Besides, remember the Columbine aftermath? People tried to go on tirades to 'stop Manson and Ramstein from corrupting our youth.' Have any of them been banned? Nope. Some overly conservative nut-job cities boycotted Manson from doing concerts in their town, but that's really nothing to worry about (unless you live in such town), those cases are very few and far between. Hell, my own town is overly conservative, and yet Slayer and Rob Zombie played a HUGE show here.
Oh, and those Youtube anime-haters... HA! Don't even pay attention to those, at all. Youtube, although fun, is a place where imbeciles can speak their mind to other imbeciles so that they don't feel like such an imbecile. Not to say that all of those rant-type videos don't have anything of value to say, a lot of them really do make some good points on certain topics, but I just really don't see how an 'anti-anime-activist' can not come off as an imbecile. Why? Well, because its essentially forcing one's own views onto another, and that always makes one look like an imbecile. I might have to look up some of these just to see what they're like...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:29 pm Reply with quote
Mushi-Man wrote:
That being said anime has developed a bad rep, not as bad as video games and movies, but still bad. Lets not forget all the claims about Higurashi being connected to murder cases in Japan. And Chain actually banning Death Note. And if I remember correctly back in the 90's OVA boom there was some controversy around anime. But I think at this point anime does not have the right qualifications to become a real scapegoat.
Actually, the whole anime subcultural fan base known as otaku became a media scapegoat in Japan, when sexual predator Tsutomu Miyazaki was labeled as "The Otaku Murderer"/"Otaku Cannibal Killer" in 1989.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6750
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:05 am Reply with quote
OK, I'm looking at people's response. It looks most of ya have both right and maybe not right one.

Dark Paladin X wrote:
I'm guessing there are people who are too naive and just want to imitate things they see. But it's mostly up to the parents' responsibility on monitoring what they watch, not some government or media watchdog group.


That's what all video game defenders, and freedom of Speech defender tried to tell all people. ITS THE PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY!!! But no, they (as in those basher) don't give a damn, they just want to put the blame on something. This happens for many and many medium (Video game, music, movies). They just never listen. I'm afraid anime haters may do, repeat what the video game haters/bashers would do. The anime haters are going to throw the "Think of the children" crap to promote their agenda further. I wonder how long till one anime haters will call anime, "Murder Simulator" like how JT (actually Dave Grossman coined that term) called all video game.

Egoist wrote:
Besides there're billions out here, we are bound to face a few lunatics and retards along the way, you just happened to meet a few.


Yeah, enough for one of them to become the new "Jack Thompson". I already met 2 anime haters that hate video game, I suspect one to be Jack Thompson because of the way he talk. Now we got anime haters wanting to take their hate to the next level after Halo Legends was announced. Now they have threatened to bring back Jack Thompson if more western game becomes anime.

Dark Paladin X wrote:
Speaking of Jack Thompson, those who solely blame a certain aspect of media, culture, specific ethnic/religious/sexual group, etc. for everything will eventually get their asses served into themselves (such as Jack Thompson being disbarred and Fred Phelps getting himselved banned in the U.K.).


True, but it didn't stop JT from trying to pass video game bills in Colorado and Louisana, which it failed thank goodness.

Quote:
I would not be surprised how the most socially conservative Christian groups will respond if Disney decides to release To Aru Majutsu no Index in the U.S.


Ten bucks say the anime haters on Youtube and anime haters groups will praise those Christian conservatives group for bashing anime and forgiving those groups for any video game they bash. Hell, I bet anime haters will become video game haters themselves because to them anyone hating anime/manga even if it's a video game hating group. They'll join them, it's in their hatred that anything become anime (video game, books) are labled enemies to them.

Mushi-Man wrote:
It seems unlikely, the reason why those other media have gotten so much heat is because they are so popular. They're easy targets because they're so big. Anime in the western world (and arguably in Japan even) is seen as a sub culture thing. Video games, music, and movies are much more well known and most people have used them before. The chances of the parent watch organization across the world suddenly deciding to go after a little sub culture like anime is unlikely (usually).


Well, 20 to 30 years ago when video game was just getting their spotlight, nobody has ever thought or expected video game would be blamed for social ills until the early 90's because of the violence and sex and other "immoral" thing you can think of (ie Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Doom). Nobody knew 30 years ago video game would become a scapegoat for school shooting, look what happen now, video game are considered evil to many Christian groups, Conservatives politicians, and a certain news network. I bet maybe 6 months to maybe 20 years later, all of our anime haters become politicians, lawyers, Psychologists, and religion extremist possibly with one goal: to ban or legislate anime/manga by any means (including violence and team up with US and Japan's worse enemies). Why do I have a feeling that some religion extremists and some politics want to use terrorism and violence to stop video game from reaching out to the fan since more video game legislation are being shot down and more research proves video game are not the cause of today's violence.



classicalzawa wrote:
However, the question here is if it's a suitable candidate to even be a scapegoat, at least in America. I'm thinking, yes to some degree, being non-mainstream hasn't affected people blaming metal music for "youth corruption" and there will certainly always be enough psychotic people to take any given idea far enough to get media attention and then blame it on something else. On the other hand, I don't think it's likely to happen any time soon, video games are still serving perfectly well as corrupting scapegoats and with less anime on TV, it'll be a little more difficult to find something some idiot can imitate. On the plus side, like the Wii, all animated things are for children, so if we'd really want media attention for anime, we'd just need to show some overly protective PTA group or crazed and equally incompetent non-disbarred lawyer Princess Mononoke (preferably right after Spirited Away or Ponyo) and get someone to claim it as "corrupting" since it is animated and therefore for children and see where that leads. Oddly enough, some adults still don't seem to know South Park isn't for kids.


20 years from now, anime is going to be scapegoat by someone who is going to carry the Jack Thompson's torch. As of now, the anime fanbase is growing and continue to rise and the bigger the fanbase, the more mainstream anime will get. When that happen, perfect opportunity for someone to blame anime for school shooting, terrorist attack, or violent crimes. It could be blame like maybe next few years because of the recent anime events like Halo Legends, Marvel anime adaptation of Wolverine and Iron Man gaining attention in US.

Quote:
have a somewhat interesting add-on question to this, if it were to become a scapegoat, do you think it would actually be a bad thing? Just look at what's happened with the other scapegoats, the Fox News Mass Effect report only made its sales go up, Bully certainly didn't suffer from Jack Thompson going crazy on it before it was even released (although being released late in the console's life might've) and I'm pretty sure the Hot Coffee thing only made more people buy San Andreas in a big rush before it got taken off the shelves and replaced with the code-less one and it certainly hasn't hurt the sale of any of the other GTA games. The lesson here seems to be that any publicity is good publicity because it means you are getting noticed and the worse things they say about you, the more curious it makes me and the more I want to check it out. If it becomes a major scape-goat, it might move out of a sub culture and either just become larger or more mainstream (which would result in more weeaboos, but also more shows getting licensed and shown on TV over here, take your pick)



About the weeaboos, yeah, I have more then enough evidence that can end the dub vs sub war forever. The weeaboos are nothing but double standard loving dub haters. I have caught them playing American games like Gears of War or Bioshock in Japanese dubs, no English audio ever to them. They've lost all credibilities and the war is nothing but hypocrisy and their way of promoting Japanese-only language to US society. You're right that scapegoat have both positive and negative effect. Here's another negative effect for scapegoating anime, they will get bad reputation and they may look down on us like we are spawn of Satan or something. More politics may want to legislate anime. Also. this may give anime haters reason to throw the US government and maybe ending up using violence to make their point. I don't mind it'll be move out of sub-culture since video game used to be one of the sub-culture. I'm more concern about the negative effect of anime being as a scapegoat. In Germany, they look down on video gamers like they were going to commit a school shooting, even though the anime and manga are popular over there. I keep worrying about how long till Germany goes after anime and manga for school shooting next? Germany blaming video game may not be enough for those politicians over there, they may want to target anime next, it will happen.


Maryohki wrote:
It's always possible, but doesn't really worry me. Honestly, some people already use anime as a scapegoat. Regardless, it really won't make any difference in the long run. The most that will happen is that these angry parents will keep their own children from watching anime. No laws will be made banning every anime ever.

Honestly, the video game thing isn't even that bad. It's just a bunch of loud people complaining. In the end, nothing really happens to the video game industry because of it.


Somewhere in the future, I know anime will be scapegoat like video game before them. There's already anme haters wanting to ban anime, legislate them, or even blame them for school shooting.

About the video game thing isn't even that bad. Yeah, Gamepolitics.com wants to talk to you about that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:42 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
I've seen a lot of people blaming school shooting on things like video game, music, and movies.

Stop for a second and ask yourself "Why are these people blaming a media?"

Once you do this, everything else becomes moot as the issue always falls upon the responsible party not doing their part, but instead, is pointing fingers for their lack of judgment.

Unfortunately, we live in a society to which people can not think for themselves and instantly jump on the blame bandwagon, believing everything they read.

Two examples come to mind: Jack Thompson (anti-video game advocate) and prosecuting attorneys (advocates of cyber-bullying re the Megan Meijer case).

In just these two examples, reading people's support of these idiots is appalling, if not entertaining.

I've already seen anime used as a scapegoat, and this was back in high school. It wouldn't surprise me if stories use it to "justify" a position on "making changes" to prevent such action in the future.

But the irony here is it doesn't change a thing! We have laws that say it's illegal to kill someone, but yet people are murdered every day.

It irks me "sheeple" won't do a thing but support idiocy rather than take lessons from such incidents to teach their kids. Because it's just a matter of time before their children are at the root of the issue before a parent screams "The TV made him do it!"

I say ignore the allegations which blame media. Read carefully, and the true responsible party isn't hard to find.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 785
Location: York, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:15 am Reply with quote
An interesting thought. I would pose that, yes, it can become a new scapegoat.
Unfortunately, some people believe that humans cannot possibly commit crime and so therefore must have some sort of input to achieve such sin, usually in the form of media. Such as Thompson with GTA and other games.
Although the potential of creating such a scapegoat varies depending on the country. I would say America is far more likely to do this than the UK, in the UK; media is not used much as a scapegoat but things like broken homes, gangs, poverty and the like.

Despite this all it takes for a scapegoat to be created is for a fan of anime/manga to commit a murder etc of a certain brutality like if I recreated a Higurashi scene from the boxset I recently purchased. Although like with all scapegoats, the impact is likely to be short term and may generate more fans for the medium.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Maryohki



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 526
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:39 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Somewhere in the future, I know anime will be scapegoat like video game before them. There's already anme haters wanting to ban anime, legislate them, or even blame them for school shooting.

About the video game thing isn't even that bad. Yeah, Gamepolitics.com wants to talk to you about that.

Uh...huh. The situation with people blaming video games is not the big deal you're making it out to be, GamePolitics.com or not. Tell me of any single law that has gotten passed that restricts video games and then I will listen. As-is it's just a bunch of whiny parents griping but not actually causing trouble.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:47 am Reply with quote
12skippy21 wrote:
Despite this all it takes for a scapegoat to be created is for a fan of anime/manga to commit a murder etc of a certain brutality like if I recreated a Higurashi scene from the boxset I recently purchased. Although like with all scapegoats, the impact is likely to be short term and may generate more fans for the medium.
However not in Japan, when somehow a media scapegoat can have a long lasting effect of nearly 20 years:
Quote:
His extraordinary appetites for pornography and manga comics gave the Japanese media its first example of a “killer geek”. Since then, it is a label that has been repeatedly applied to any murderer who appears to share those tastes – last week’s stabbing frenzy in Tokyo’s Akihabara electronics district was carried out by a man instantly branded in the public eye as a killer geek.

For his victims’ families and Japanese society at large, the Miyazaki killings were particularly shattering. Miyazaki began his spree of abductions and killings at the very peak of Japan’s 1980s economic bubble – a phase where the country’s mighty corporations seemed to hold the world at their feet and society boasted of its unique “harmony”.
"Unique 'harmony'”? Sounds more like gullible to me. Neutral
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group