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Sophisticat
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 165
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:00 pm
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Have you all conveniently omitted the guy's evaluation? I think his sentence reflects his mental state rather than the kind of works he was interested in.
This is less about manga than it is about a guy who was a sexual deviant. His sentence is quite light, in retrospect.
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JELEINEN
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 253
Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:01 pm
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phoenixphire24 wrote: | This is absolutely ridiculous. Does anyone with a better understanding of the law know if he can appeal even if he plead guilty? |
No, he can't. Part of the plea agreement was that he gave up his right to appeal.
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abunai
Old Regular
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:03 pm
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SpacePope wrote: | That's why obscenity laws should be repealed, because it's the only offense on the books where the actual fact that an offense even took place isn't established until a guilty verdict is rendered. Murder, rape, robbery, embezzlement, and the like have to actually be done before charges are even filed.
But is this drawing you have in your house "obscenity"? Well, we don't really know, but we're going to charge you with it anyway and leave it to the courts to decide whether or not an offense was committed in the first place. There is literally no way to protect yourself from obscenity charges because it's unclear whether or not what you possess is in fact obscenity. |
It may be unclear to you, but that is, in fact, how courts already work. The prosecutor postulates that an offense under the law has been committed, and the court judges whether this is true. The onus of proof is on the prosecution, but it is up to the court to judge not only whether you are guilty as charged, but also whether the case even merits the charges proposed by the prosecution.
SpacePope wrote: |
GWOtaku wrote: | Are you for real? You should be ashamed of yourself. |
Go on... |
You should, you know. It's a supremely immature and uncivilised act to suggest that the proper response to a court's verdict is to form a lynch mob, whether virtual or actual.
- abunai
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sjp117
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 12
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:06 pm
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huh... I never knew there was a law that does not allow people to own these kind of materials. they'r no worse than owning pornography in my opinion. Who could have known owning those manga's could have gotten you arrested in U.S.
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egoist
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:06 pm
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DrizzlingEnthalpy wrote: | I wonder if Handley's doing anything special for Valentine's Day. |
Well, definitely not looking at drawings. That I guarantee you.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10470
Location: Do not message me for support.
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:07 pm
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nerdx2000 wrote: | The funny thing is that it says he order some of these books from jlist, wonder if ANN or other sites will block their ads since they're apparently peddling kiddie porn. |
Nope.
ANN's policy on pornographic material & advertising is straight forward. The ads themselves can not be pornographic (they must adhere to Canadian "PG" ratings (ANN is a Canadian company)), and there must be an age-gate between ANN and any pornographic material.
J-List has always adhered to these rules, and has been more than willing to tone down their ads anytime we felt that they pushed the limits too much.
-t
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Nemo_N
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:07 pm
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Quote: | Handley's original psychological assessment determined that Handley, "although honest with what he reported, was not disclosing enough to gain a complete picture of the nature and extent of [his] sexual deviancy... |
So you see, they are already convinced that his sexual deviancy goes even further. They just can't prove it.
Makes perfect sense.
Ugh.
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SpacePope
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 11
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:09 pm
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abunai wrote: | It may be unclear to you, but that is, in fact, how courts already work. The prosecutor postulates that an offense under the law has been committed, and the court judges whether this is true. |
Not really. The way it normally works is that an offense has been committed, but the question is who committed the offense. In the case of obscenity, there's really no way to know whether or not something could be called a crime in the first place until after the court proceeding have concluded. The difference should be clear.
abunai wrote: |
SpacePope wrote: |
GWOtaku wrote: | Are you for real? You should be ashamed of yourself. |
Go on... |
You should, you know. It's a supremely immature and uncivilised act to suggest that the proper response to a court's verdict is to form a lynch mob, whether virtual or actual.
- abunai |
But how else are they supposed to learn that this isn't acceptable? If they don't hear from us, then they'll think that what they did was okay.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24360
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:09 pm
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I'm kind of ambivalent. One the one hand, the idea that somebody could be imprisoned for possession of drawings seems sort of crazy, but on the other hand this guy clearly had a long-standing interest in seeing representations of children being raped. That severely blunts my sympathy for him.
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15628
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:09 pm
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Quote: | More than 80 books were retained. |
Wonder what they'll do with 'em after the trial's over.
Quote: | The defense document stated that Handley spent his free time attending a Bible study group, playing online games, and reading comics. |
Truly the type of perp you'd find on "To Catch a Predator".
Quote: | His interests then "evolved" into a "fascination for images of young girls engaged in sexual activity." |
Yeah, it's only ok when Larry Clark does it.
Quote: | Handley added that he "didn't realize that this material fell under the banned paraphernalia within the US." |
Banned from where? They didn't arrest him until after it got sent to his house, so it sounds perfectly legal to me.
Quote: | Handley admitted he searched the Internet for manga with stories involving the sexual abuse of minors. The prosecution also stated that "The works at issue do not even have arguable ascientific, literary, artistic, or political value, such as Vladimir Nabokov's famed novel, Lolita, Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, or even Alan Moore's recent, but controversial, graphic novel, Lost Girls. By the defendant's own statements, the works for which he was convicted of receiving and possessing are clearly obscene." |
That's total bullshit. If you're gonna lump Lost Girls in there, then there is no excuse for Handley to not read his manga. The only difference is Moore has deeper pockets to defend himself in court.
Quote: | was not disclosing enough to gain a complete picture of the nature and extent of [his] sexual deviancy … |
Of course he ain't disclosing shit, because he knows he'd get a longer sentence with a shrink like you ready to call him a deviant.
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hissatsu01
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:12 pm
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Sophisticat wrote: |
This is less about manga than it is about a guy who was a sexual deviant. His sentence is quite light, in retrospect. |
Then surely they'll be able to come up with all the awful sexually deviant acts he's committed. Except that he hasn't acted, but he might some day, so better to lock him up just in case. What a luxury it is to have such a proactive legal system that can try and judge on the basis of deviant thoughts. If only there was a term for that...
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10470
Location: Do not message me for support.
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:13 pm
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Kougeru wrote: | Sad stuff. What a crappy situation...what happened to freedom as long as there's no harm. |
That particular libertarian value has never managed to truly take hold in the USA.
Which IMHO is unfortunate. Particularly when the inverse also isn't true. US laws don't really work under the "it's not okay if someone gets hurt" motto. There are plenty of legally harmful activities in the US, and plenty of illegal harmless activities.
(I'm not saying that anywhere else is better... I don't know much about laws outside of the USA, Canada and Japan).
-t
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The Xenos
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:14 pm
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Nemo_N wrote: |
Quote: | Handley's original psychological assessment determined that Handley, "although honest with what he reported, was not disclosing enough to gain a complete picture of the nature and extent of [his] sexual deviancy... |
So you see, they are already convinced that his sexual deviancy goes even further. They just can't prove it.
Makes perfect sense.
Ugh. |
Yeah! What kind of idiot assumes someone's innocent until they're proven guilty! Oh wait.,. the US court system.
Really goes to show how much of a witch hunt this case has been.
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Nemo_N
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:14 pm
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Blood- wrote: | I'm kind of ambivalent. One the one hand, the idea that somebody could be imprisoned for possession of drawings seems sort of crazy, but on the other hand this guy clearly had a long-standing interest in seeing representations of children being raped. That severely blunts my sympathy for him. |
People shouldn't be jailed just because we don't sympathize with them.
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hissatsu01
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:17 pm
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SpacePope wrote: |
abunai wrote: | You should, you know. It's a supremely immature and uncivilised act to suggest that the proper response to a court's verdict is to form a lynch mob, whether virtual or actual.
- abunai |
But how else are they supposed to learn that this isn't acceptable? If they don't hear from us, then they'll think that what they did was okay. |
While I share you indignation towards the sentence, your methods are counterproductive to say the least.
Last edited by hissatsu01 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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