Forum - View topicAnime vs The Fandom
|
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
|
|||||||
|
Why is it that so many anime fans refuse to watch an anime solely because of the fandom associated with it? I just don't understand it. Like there are many anime fans who will bash Naruto before they've even seen it to judge it based solely on the actions of the fans. I myself used to avoid Naruto like the plague because of the Narutards but I gave in and tried the manga out. While I do agree that a lot of Narutards are exaggerating the merits of the series and that Naruto isn't without its flaws nor is it the most perfect anime ever, it's not quite as bad as what many anime fans make it out to be (ignoring the filler-in episodes here). It's just a fun little action show and sometimes I like to just shut my brain off after a long day and just watch a simple action anime that isn't difficult to follow but is still entertaining and fun. However, if I continued to avoid Naruto solely because of the fans I would've missed out on an entertaining series. But this isn't just limited to Naruto. This happens with many other series as well, such as DBZ, Inuyasha, and even Evangelion. I've even seen some people bash an entire genre of anime simply because of the fans. I've lost track of how many times I've seen some anti-yaoi elitist bash yaoi simply because they hate yaoi fangirls yet miss out on entertaining series like Gravitation and Loveless and Fake because of their refusal to have anything to do with yaoi based solely on the fans. I just don't understand this mentality that people have that the action of the fans is somehow equal to the quality of the show. It's not as if people force you to visit yaoi sites or read Naruto threads. Even now I still rarely ever read Naruto threads or participate in Evangelion discussions other than to read updates about the upcoming Eva movies but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the shows by themselves. I just don't understand what the fandom has anything to do with the quality of the show itself. Yes, you can go ahead and hate the shows if you like or even hate their fandoms, and yes, Naruto fanboys and yaoi fangirls can be annoying. But if you're going to hate a show, at least have the common sense to hate it for the faults of the show itself and not the fandom because the fandom is completely irrelevant to the show itself.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
|
|||||||
|
In my opinion there is a WORLD of difference between people who dodge Naruto because they don't like it's fans, and people who hate yaoi-fans. Most people who hate yaoi fans don't like the genre to begin with and find the fans that ADDED level of annoying that makes them hate it even MORE. OTOH, people that dodge a show like Naruto over the fans just don't like the people and feel no urge to find something in common with them.
This is a big difference. To put it another way, if you removed yaoi-fans, most yaoi-fan haters STILL ain't gonna watch yaoi, unless by mistake or accident. OTOH, some narutard haters might watch Naruto if the fans didn't turn em off to it. I think it's comparing apples and oranges to claim the two are related. That's not to say there aren't equally annoying people in both groups, just that if you're applying it to a genre, it is the EXCEPTION case when someone WOULD watch it if not for the fans, as opposed to a given show where maybe a person likes say a DBZ but won't watch Naruto because of the fans. The DBZ like proves they WOULD watch that type of show (at least) were it not for the fandom issues. From my own experience, I will USUALLY (altho not always) try a show anyway even if the fans are annoying, BUT I admit I go into it with the anime needing to "prove" something to me. If I watch a show cold, an "average" show can still entertain me or keep my interests, but if a show has psycho fans, it'd need to be pretty good to get me to stick with it. More often than not, while watching a show with psycho fans, I just feel compelled to "temper" the rabid fan opinion. Like I think Evangelion is overrated, and same for the Kenshin OVAs. I don't hate them in and of themselves, I find them "meh" and not series I want to buy, but rabid fan opinion makes me feel like "ya know, these shows ain't all THAT great" which eventually kinda morphs into "why do you keep ranting and raving about this show?" which eventually becomes "dude, stfu, this show sucks!" Utena is the only show I can think of that I flat out won't watch because of the fandom, altho a complete dislike/disinterest in pretty much everything I know about the show also keeps me away. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
bonbonsrus
 Posts: 1537 Location: Michigan, USA |
|
|||||||
|
I have never encountered this myself, it is really prevelant?
I can't say I would let fan actions determin if I watch a show or not, only my personal interests. If I know the person's taste saying something about a show's, I may let that affect my jugdgement, but not a group as you are talking about. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
SalarymanJoe
 Posts: 468 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA |
|
|||||||
|
Kouji, you've brought up an interesting premise but I can't say I've personally seen in my experience. However, there have been many times when my observation skills are likened to those of a rock.
You brought up a lot of titles of which I take issues with both the title and the fan groups associated with it. My distaste for fans for a lot of the series stems from their near insane obsession with said series and my generally low impression of the series from independent analysis.
Sometimes they're directly related. I don't like the vast majority of Naruto fans because most that I've encountered put the series up on a pedestal like it's so mature and revolutionary to the shounen genre when it is still a show for kids and pre-teens. My issue with the series itself is that I've tried to get into it, but I've not seen anything in Naruto that I can't get out of other shounen adventure/fighting series like Dragonball or even Hokuto no Ken. Because many of these Narutards refuse to accept that it is a typical shounen fighter in a youth market, no matter how enjoyable the series is to them, I refuse to have a conversation with them about the subject anymore. The current Narutard is likened itself to a lot of fans who got into anime heavily off of Dragonball Z. I possibly could have been classified as one because DBZ was one of my favorites in my youth and I had a lot of friends who also liked it, we talked a lot about it, searched for information on it, etc. etc. etc. Yet, despite my love for the show, I kept up watching all sorts of other anime concurrently, always knowing DBZ would end eventually and asking "What's Next?". There were plenty of DBZ fans who never did that and DBZ was the ultimate. I'm seeing a lot of those in the Naruto community, too. And I don't think it is unique to these two series, either. Which brings up Evangelion. Touted by ADV as the be-all, end-all - Alpha and Omega - of anime fandom, I merely consider it average. Some of the themes are nice to think about for no more than five minutes and some of the mecha fighting action in the first half was alright. I, however, find Anno's attempted use of symbolism through production cuts to try and make a psychological thriller to be its major detractor. The hardcore Eva fans, upon hearing me say this, usually sputter of nonsense like "You haven't watched it enough" or "You're not trying hard enough". I'm glad they enjoyed it so much they've spent hours pouring over every Eva document in Japanese and English trying to piece their puzzle together. I wonder if we're watching the same show, though, because the puzzle I had from it was something for a young adult to put together. They're making it out to be a puzzle with 5000 pieces of the Sistine Chapel. If I'm required to watch a series more than once "just to get it", then that director did a piss poor job of telling his story. I liked the movies even less than the TV series, from a story perspective (though the animation is great looking). If it weren't for the fanbase, maybe I'd be more interested in the new Eva movies ... until I found out they were re-hashing the same story. Inu Yasha is probably the one that hurts me the most. They're not closed-minded of my opinions like the Eva fans but more the opposite - they're closed off from anything else by Inu Yasha's author. Takahashi Rumiko is probably the most prolific mangaka of our day, if not in the past sixty years. I think, with all sincerity, that Inu Yasha is a testament to her power she holds in the publishing industry and her worst work ever written. I have seen plenty of Takahashi anime productions from her break out hit Urusei Yatsura to the much smaller audience-oriented Mermaid Scar and Forest OAVs and most everything else in between. I picked up a volume of Inu Yasha in English from my sister (who was borrowing from a friend) because I was reading Maison Ikkoku and Ranma 1/2 at the time back about 1998. I wasn't as enthused as I was with MI and Ranma, but it was just one volume. I started watching the anime via fansubs and catching an episode here and there on [as]. I just couldn't, for the life of me, get into it. It tried to be a serious period piece at times, but Takahashi went back to her comedy from UY and Ranma that made her famous. The romances were not anywhere near as good as her previous works nor did working with a smaller cast provide any more attachment with the characters. But the fans! Oh jeez. They saw IY and "OMG it wuz teh awwsome!". I voiced my complaints, illustrated them with the best examples I could make, and gave recommendations of other Takahashi works. It amazed me once a young IY fan told me without researching or watching any other Takahashi anime I recommended: "I don't believe you." She was probably the worst I've ever come across but I've run up against a similar indifference for any non-IY Takahashi work.
I agree. I hate the mannerisms of most of the fans and how they carry themselves but I was never the intended audience for yaoi/shounen-ai type of anime. Last edited by SalarymanJoe on Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Viga_of_stars
 Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
|
|||||||
|
maybe you should submit this to the rant of the week for answerman
i have to admit at one point i was guilty of this. except it was kinda backwards. I did like DBZ but all the guys at school just talked about it so much and treated it like the best show ever i just left my liking towards that show to seek out more and better anime. people who dont watch a genre just because of fans is wrong. i mean my friend troy hates yaoi but found gravitation very entertaining and loves it. (lucky because i borrowed her set too!) and at first because of my exp with the DBZ guys i left action alltogether until i found some cool series like ikki tousen, tenjo tenge, samurai champloo, elfien lied, and many others and proved myself wrong. that was a few yrs back for me though. so anyone if your doing that sorta thing quit it. dont let the fanboys/fangirls ruin a genre or dont write it off because of them. see it yourself and find out weather you like it or not. EDIT: to salaryman, yeah i agree the the IY comments. i even once made a thread here just to talk about her other works thats not inuyasha. heck people i knew that were huge fan of it scoffed at me when i said her other anime was good and didn't believe me when i said rumiko takahashi was a woman. sigh |
||||||||
|
||||||||
digitalkikka
 Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
|
|||||||
|
First off, I'm really hoping this won't turn into another "is Naruto mature?" thread. Please, let's just stay away from that.
As for the original question, I've always felt that an anime's fans have an impact on my enjoyment of a show. The worst for me would have to be Eva. Before I actually watched the series I was turned off by the ridiculous fan comments like, "Eva is THE most orginal mecha show EVER!!! others are copies!!!". Now as someone who prefers their anime to be saturated with giant robots, I was more then skeptical. When I finally watched the show, the only thing I did was compare. No matter how hard I tried to enjoy it, I kept thinking "Oh, I've seen this before in Series A." or "That's been done by Series B". When a show is so built up by its fandom, it's impossible (for me at least) to watch it with an open mind. And then it gets even worse when you try and discuss it with the hardcore fans as things immediately turn into an argument. They stick by their opinion that Eva (or any other show with a strong fandom) is THE BEST and think you're too stupid to understand it. I'm sure it seems silly to dislike a show based on its fans, but to this day, I won't go anywhere near an Eva discussion even though it is a show I'd like to discuss. I know that not all fans are over the top. I'll be the first to admit I LOVE Naruto. It's one of my favorite series and I love to discuss it and chat with fellow fans. The problem of course, is there are those narutards who give us a bad name. I've had to stay away from several forums because my idea of fun isn't talking about how hot Sasuke is with 13 year old girls. When a show gains popularity, it's going to gain critics as well. It's too bad that a series can turn into a 'love it or hate it' based on its fandom. 
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
blind_assassin
 Posts: 755 |
|
|||||||
|
^ exactly right. Anything that becomes as immensely popular as Naruto is required according to laws of human nature to have people who hate it for no reason. I am somewhat biased because as a fan of the show I will dismiss certain reasons people provide for not liking the show as being rather dubious but if you gathered a list of Naruto haters and threw a dart at it I can bet that you'd get someone who hated the show for at least one stupid reason.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
namelissis
 Posts: 219 |
|
|||||||
|
OMG, I am guilty of these at couple of instances... Sorry if I would hurt somenody with what I'll say further... It's just my opinions, so don't worry, it won't change the anime history...
Okay, here are some of the anime's I didn't even try to finish because it's popular: Neon Genesis Evangelion Deathnote Eva has a great animation, but I hate it when almost all the people surrounding me is forcing me to watch this anime because of the plain reason, "It's the best anime ever"... So most of the times I ended up not watching it... But if somebody can give a more constructive reason, I'll give Eva another shot, okay? Those times when Eva was hot here in our place, I think I was much hooked up Vandread(an anime of the same genre), so can't help myself asking, why would I settle for Eva if there is Vandread? Deathnote? So you'll put a a person's name in the notebook... and all that...! What I see in deathnote is like the scenes in Jigoku Shoujo! Okay, we'll enter the hell site at exactly 12 int the midnight then put her name on the textfield on the site and click enter! In both animes, the person which you put on those things mentioned earlier, will die... What's the big fuss about it? And since it's the hottest anime in school, people come up to me and say, "Oh Nadine, why aren't you watching Deathnote, since you're an anime freak!" Hell crap, I hate it really when they do that. For a fact, I don't like people saying to me, especially this certain classmate of mine, it's good when in fact, they are not into anime, generally speaking... I mean, with a little knowledge on anime, they can't prove it that it is the most coolest anime these season... I find deathnote and jigoku quite alot in most times... I want to watch Deathnote when my will decides it, that someone(not an anime-lover) who is forcing me to watch it... And this is really what got me pissed, this classmate of mine is blabbing negative things about the current anime(Black Cat) we're watching, without even having a glance of it, then all of the sudden while my other classmate and I were watching a funny epi of it, he then said that I also want a copy of black cat, WTF? Then since I'm not letting him yet borrow my copy, he's saying that I'll only watch Black cat when you watch Deathnote! WTF! He's the first one who went to me and wants to borrow it, then he'll say shitty things like that... Mainly, i hate the unknowledgable fans, who thinks they're pretty intelligent with that anime, but not the anime itself... (A new realization)... Yeah maybe that's it!!! |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
10円
Posts: 605 |
|
|||||||
|
I'll admit it, when I hear about some mega-popular series on TV I tend to immediately discount it and avoid it, but when I read about the latest Buried Treasure or some random post about some obscure title I often become interested almost instantly. There are many reasons for this, but basically I just find that what most people incessantly fawn over is complete and utter crap. Call me a snob if you want, but I just don't find myself enjoying most of the truly mainstream series. As I've said before I dislike roughly 90% of all anime out there, but thankfully the 10% I do enjoy makes up for it.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Drowning_Wolf
Posts: 193 |
|
|||||||
|
I must say, although it's not a certain fandom that will make me like or dislike a show itself, it can be pretty annoying and at worst, it can make me a lot more critical toward it than I'd usually be. Sometime it's almost as if I was completely immune to others comments but sometime it gets so on my nerves (could depend on how much I appreciated a show). Once at school me and one of my friend were discussing about The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, he hated it and I loved it, when suddenly a guy with witch we never talked overheard our conversation and started to bug my friend on how much the show was a complete masterpiece and how much he was closed-minded et cetera, et cetera. It made me quite irritated and I started becoming more and more negative toward the anime, a strange thing since a was once one of the show supporter by excellence. And when the show gained popularity (or when I was aware that it was popular) it became worst, now I can't stand the word Haruhism (it just sound so... ). Still, I like the anime, but I can bring myself to be very enthusiastic over it or to be too positive.
Ps: Is the InuYasha's fandom really that bad? I am a rabid fan of the series; I own every limited season box set, limited edition of the movies, every video games (even those not released outside Japan), manga and even a couple of merchandise stuff (and I tend to hate that), but I do love other work by the author (though I don't own that much of those, but you got to blame it on my geographical location and the fact that I have no credit card). The only other fan I know is my science teacher and he's not into anime, he just happen to really like InuYasha. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
|
|||||||
You know, this is really a funny opinion when you look at it. So you don't trust thousands of people's opinion, you just trust one person who says: "Hey look at this! Nobody else seemed to like it!" Of course, there are always series like HxH that were simply overshadowed, but these series seem to be far fewer than those that simply didn't deserve to make it to mainstream. Every show has its fans, so if you take two shows of equal fandom, you're just about as likely to be recommended crap as you are to get what you would consider an actual gem. As always though, this isn't limited to anime fandom. Anyone who follows music will see this as absolutely ubiquitous. People will follow some band, often a local band, through thick and thin and will mention them every chance they get, until they become popular... then bam said person suddenly doesn't like their "new" music and will say things like: "oh, they were cool, back in the day before they sold out." It's a little different here, because your opinion doesn't actually change... but in both cases, it's something that you probably would like, if you could just look at the actual quality of the object and not let yourself get pushed around (or force yourself to push back in this case) by public opinion. I always thought doing this was pretty easy and never thought anything of it, but apparently most people find it very hard to just ignore what people say. I guess it's harder to just not think about things than I thought. 
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
10円
Posts: 605 |
|
|||||||
If you feel as I do, that most Americans enjoy watching absolute crap, then yes looking for titles most Americans did not enjoy (or in many cases even bother to look at) can be a surprisingly good way to find some of the better titles out there. Titles that include characters, art, and/or plots that average Americans would be absolutely bored to death with but that come alive with incredible intensity if you're willing to lose yourself in them. It's true that most one-off suggestions of less-popular titles don't lead to any groundbreaking experiences, but in my experience the ratio of hit-to-miss is still better than listening to those who routinely praise the mega-mainstream titles.
I'm not talking about shows of equal fandom; I'm talking about shows that run on nationwide television vs. limited art-house runs with virtually no press. Both can lead to good or bad experiences, but I find that I tend to enjoy the obscure more than the routine. Bash me if you must, but I've found a pretty good niche and I'm sticking with it.
It's human nature to draw attention to something when it's still new and small and even a mere fan can claim to be a part of it. Then when it gets to be so large than no single fan matters anymore it's only natural to feel a little let down. Besides, most mainstream artists probably are sellouts in one respect or another. In fact I know a lot of people who 'sold out' to get what they wanted and it's most definitely not just limited to musicians. I'm an environmentalist who works as a consultant for companies who irrevocably harm the environment on a massive scale. Does that make me a sellout? As much as I'd like to think differently, it probably does. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Kouji
Posts: 978 |
|
|||||||
 Besides, since when do most Americans watch anime anyway?
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
DragonsRevenge
 Posts: 1150 |
|
|||||||
|
When I read the first few lines of the OP's post, I immediately thought of Inuyasha. I refuse to watch it. I dont care how it is, whether it's actually very good or derivitive and over long. Thanks to the idiot 14 year old girls screaming OMG!! INUYASHA IS TEH GREATEST SHOW EVA!!!!!!1111 SHESSHIE IS MY BISHIE *GLOMP*" etc, I've made it a point not to watch it.
btw, that accounts for 80% of the AS Action forum. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Imperialkat
 Posts: 227 |
|
|||||||
|
Yo. Nice lil' setup y'all got here.
*Ahem* I try not to let rabid fans deter me from shows, although people can be so annoying that you either give in or run far, far away. Sure some people overreact to their favorite shows, but consider these points: -people have varying opinions A show one fan considers gold another fan may consider crap. And they may have valid reasons on both sides. There's nothing wrong with thinking DBZ is the shiznit (I personally LOVE DBZ), its just that the show speaks to them differently. If I listed my favorites one person would agree, another person would find my tastes too confined and direct me to something NOONE has EVER heard of (not saying it wouldn't be good), and yet another person would wonder why I'm not watching/reading the world's most popular series this minute (also not saying it wouldn't be good). -The Cult Theory Hear me out. When I came into the anime fandom (I rode the DBZ wave) anime was this super-secret underground movement where those of us wanting more of this "anime" would sit at the feet of this guy who shunned us for watching dubs and then pulled out Ranma 1/2 for us to watch, and we would all go "ooooohhhhh...." Point is, not everything popular/on TV is complete and utter crap and yet I listen to some people and they say we are inferior for watching [as]. I think some people long for the "exclusivity" of the old days, to the point that they shun anything with a large following. -People are ANNOYING Like I said before, sometimes the fandom gets on your nerves so much that you either scream "Screw this--I'm not listening to you anymore" or "Alright, alright. I'll check it out. Geez!!!" just to shut them up. Don't let rabid fans steer you away from something interesting. I got into Bleach and Naruto this way, and I'm happy I listened. Now I can tune the Narutards and the Bleachatards out. Sorry for my rambling. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group