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Evangelion - thoughts and discussions.

I hope that no one minds if I continue my thoughts on Evangelion. I've been giving some thought to the idea that NERV's headquarters complex is in the shape of a pyramid. Is that intended to convey anything? Pyramid Power is an obscure pseduo-scientific theory about the way in which pyramid structures are assumed to centralize myriad forces, and I wondered if this were some kind of reference. Either that, or the idea that NERV has 'risen' in the manner of a Pharaoh.

I'm going to be a hypocrite here and not read all the posts and just throw my personal feelings into the mix completly without context

It hits a lot of phisilosical points that have been hit many many times before and often hit much better, also they try to get thier point across with alot of dialog with intermitent scenes of action or characterization and it ruins the continuity and pace. I can kind of compare it to Ergo proxy, in that they are both somewhat intelligent but where ergo proxy presents most of its philisofical and intellectual points within the plot of the show Evangelion opts to take you out of the context of the story (young depressed boy fighting monsters in a robot) and throws you into a netherworld of dialog.

Another way i can describe it is comparing it once again to ergo proxy. One thing EP did poorly is have 2 or 3 episodes which were completely out of the pace and plot arc of the show i.e. the bookstore episode, in which they used a ton of dialog to get a point across. Frankly it didn't work well and it is probably the worst episode of the series, but this is how evangelion approaches every intellectual idea instead of presenting them contextually.

The show definitely set some presidents but that doesn't necessarily make it good. A lot of those presidents i really feel we could do without i.e. teens in giant fighting robots and crazy dumb surrealism in any show trying to be smart or artsy

I can appreciate the anime for present some interesting ideas to people who might not have ever been exposed to them but as someone who is very familiar with philosophy and religion and all sorts of arguments surrounding them all attempts at being intellectual just seemed bland and ineffectual and when i compare it to ergo proxy which i can't help but doing its shortcomings just become that much more obvious

One thing that does annoy me is how people say that the religious symbols and imagery and stuff were meant to be deep even though it was really just there to look really cool and stand out from the norm. Won't deny that it totally worked though.

I also want to add to that.

When people say "NGE did things that were seen/executed better in other series," it seems that they forget that for that time....no there wasn't. There just really wasn't anything to compare it to then. At least not at the influx of anime that came 10+ years later.

Oh, I'm not saying Eva is a godly anime. I'm neutral to it myself (though the Rebuild movies are bloody fantastic) but I do note why it is such a standout piece.

One thing that does annoy me is how people say that the religious symbols and imagery and stuff were meant to be deep even though it was really just there to look really cool and stand out from the norm. Won't deny that it totally worked though.

So?

Just watched the first half of Gundam 0080, it's still a masterpiece, so age has no excuse for a series not aging well. The Lord of the Rings is still one of the best if not the best fantasy series available. In fact if you have to make excuses for a series than it's not as good as you think it is. Mobile Suit Gundam, and Urusei Yatsura are still some of the best of their genre.

Charred Knight wrote:

So? Just watched the first half of Gundam 0080, it's still a masterpiece, so age has no excuse for a series not aging well. The Lord of the Rings is still one of the best if not the best fantasy series available. In fact if you have to make excuses for a series than it's not as good as you think it is. Mobile Suit Gundam, and Urusei Yatsura are still some of the best of their genre.

Uh, did you miss the part where I said I was "neutral" to the series. I don't think it's good nor do I think it's bad. I wsan't making excuses. I was just stating why it had it's appeal.

(Also, I don't Urusei Yatsura either)

I very well know it's appeal, I am just saying that I don't think it's well rounded enough to be really considered a great series, and the revolutionary aspects it did bring are marrred by the fact that a significant number of them are bad (fake symbolism, emphasis on fanservice)

I have seen the pyramid symbolism used quite a few times in other animes/movies and i think it represents as you say, a centralized myriad of forces in the form of U.N giving NERV status and priority in situations. I have to say though that its rather conflicting seeing NERV being undermined easily in the End of Evangelion movies.

I very well know it's appeal, I am just saying that I don't think it's well rounded enough to be really considered a great series, and the revolutionary aspects it did bring are marrred by the fact that a significant number of them are bad (fake symbolism, emphasis on fanservice)

Neon Genesis Evangelion was the first series to put forth the idea that a well written plot was unecessary.

Who needs your world's history to make any sense when you can blow up Antartica, with humanity surviving, have every major city in Japan be flooded, and not only can Japan exist as a nation but it's still one of the most powerful nations on the planet.

Then you get information that is severly lacking in necessary information like how did the religious sect that created the Dead Sea Scrolls (possibly the Essenes) know about the apocalypse?

While several characters are well developed but others such as Seele get no development at all, why does Seele want to end the world?

Then we get to the use of religion in Evangelion. To put it bluntly, Evangelion has simply ruined the Abrahamic religion as a use of symbolism in anime. Since everyone copied Evangelion theirs no particular rhyme or reason why someone bases something off of the Cruxifiction of Jesus, theirs no reason for having people quote the bible, I mean it's no longer symbolism when it doesn't symbolize anything, it's meaningless and only diverts true symbolism.

I don't think that Anno succeded at what he was trying to accomplish due to bizarre decisions like the ending basically being the exact opposite of what was needed to get his theme across.

He also buries the theme of breaking down the walls we have by adding distractive stuff like all the allusions to Abrahamic religion that don't mean anything.

The result is that for probably at least until 2005 and possbily later no one got Evangelion. Just look at the earlier part of the thread from 2003.

Making your series so incomprehensible that it takes years for people to began to understand your point doesn't make it a good series.

1. The reason I harp on the backstory of Evangelion is because Hideki Anno attempted to deconstruct super robot shows, but the backstory he created has just has as many holes as a normal super robot show has but doesn't have the fantastic elements to cover them up.

You can't challenge the audience, and then start making excuses. Don't tell me to pay attention, then say ignore that part.

2 . It would certainly help make the series more realistic than having an insanely vague group of individuals just talk about "the prophecy"

3. How many gundam series have a vague council that doesn't go into their motives other than Gundam 00 which I hate?

4. Was Jung an accomplished film director? Did he go to Japan to direct anime? No? Than what the hell does he have to do with anime other than Anno's obsession with him?

The reason I bitch is that it's distracting, what if I made a film in which every once in a while I add in a scene of a puppy? You can try to explain it all you want but it's ruined just as soon as I say that I thought the puppy was cute. It's the exact same thing here, all the references mean nothing other than the fact that Gainax thought they where cool. Now you can claim that Kazuya Tsurumaki, who was the Assistant director is lying, but that wouldn't exactly hold up in a debate.

To bad that the ending of the series is End of Evangelion, and not the last two episodes which take place during Third impact.

Who the hell is Izubuchi? Your not talking to yourself here, you need to learn how to communicate on the internet.

Normal people understand that I am talking about themes, and keep in mind that your previous quote is so vague that I can't imagine anyone actually getting it other than you.