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Forum - View topicHunter x Hunter & Dragon Ball Z: the Fall of the Shounen Hero
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BonelessChicken
Posts: 21 |
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Gon, by far, is the most hypocrite shounen MC (not bad as a character) I've ever seen.
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1185 |
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I recommend everybody interested on this topic to read Medaka Box.
It's a really weird series and not for everybody, but, at some point it slowly becomes a Shounen Manga critique specially the shounen hero architype. It recontextualices most Shounen Manga "lessons" and shows its ugly side and shows that is actually selfish to expect somebody to sacrifice himself for the sake of others. It actually has what is probably my favorite quote ever, to paraphrase it: "Shounen Manga is too cruel for a simple girl like me, it shows the awful truth of this world, is not friendship, effort and victory but power. Without power you cannot have friends. Without power effort is meaningless. Without power victory is unattainable. It's the cold truth of this world" I actually noticed some changes in Shounen Jump after it's run ended, with heroes becoming a little more grounded and stopped being underdogs that can bulldoze thru everything because hard work and friendship. Don't get me wrong, its still there, but now is more tolerable, and it's my headcannon that Medaka influenced this change. |
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2268 |
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Good lord, do I feel validated. Gon kinda gave me strange vibes even in the early days of the anime (even during his first tournament arc) because people kept saying he was a kid on the very edge of balance, or something like that. For me, that was a giant red flag confirming that Gon was not Chaotic Good but rather a true Neutral Neutral, willing to achieve his own goals, consequences be damned.
But I don’t think anyone else was really convinced til we got to the Chimera Ant arc, and even that arc is being very heavy-handed in how hard it’s trying to convey its messaging—which in this case is probably not a bad thing, given how naturally attached everyone was to Gon. |
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gsilver
Posts: 650 |
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Yeah. Gon has always been a more uncomfortable character in the shounen hero cannon. It was more of a creeping realization when I was going through the anime back in 2011, with the obvious bombshells mentioned here as confirmation of everything that I was beginning to suspect.
A well-written character, sure, but does show how far removed from an actual hero he is, despite the bright eyes and smiling face that may disarm viewers at a glance. |
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thepepin
Posts: 69 |
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I feel that it is absolutely amazing that I even have to point this out but Gon is not a hero.
1. His motivation for leaving the island was never to be a hero, to help the innocent, to protect people, to make the world a better place. His motivation was always solely to find his father. Everything else that occurred along the way - friendships, helping/saving people - were incidental to that goal, and he would have sacrificed them all without thinking (not necessarily murdered them or stranded them on a desert island without potable water or transportation but definitely jettisoned them) if it meant getting closer to it. Being willing to do a good thing from time to time - or should I say being occasionally heroic - does not make you a hero. Even comic book villains do this, especially those that do not view themselves as villains but see themselves as the heroes to their own story or people. Gon is the protagonist, true, is not overtly evil and/or does not go out of his way to harm people, yes, and will do good deeds if asked/required but never at any time regards himself or presents himself as a hero. 2. Another thing: Gon is a hunter. Hunters are not heroes. They aren't the Justice League, a military, private detectives or police. Instead, they are amoral at best. Many people hate and fear them for good reason. They allow outright serial killers and other grotesque criminals among their midst, and have even set up a system that makes it easier for such outright villains to do whatever they want unpunished. While that isn't the goal of the Hunter Association, it was pretty clear that this was going to be the result and they don't care. The only one who DID - Menchi, who tried to stop Hisoka from entering the association was overruled by by chairman! (and even there she only objected to Hisoka and not the 2 Zoldyck assassins). I may be going too far, but I still say that an actual hero would oppose the Hunter Association - in spite of or perhaps even because of the people who join it with heroic intentions - rather than join them. Goku is a tougher case. But outside of the narrator referring to them as "our heroes" (is that in the source material? and even if it is, it applies to the Z fighters collectively anyway) I say that Goku is a fighter, not a hero. Now Goku legitimately doesn't want to do bad things and will do good things when asked or the need arises. But Goku's goal in life has never been to be a hero. It has been to be a fighter. Not entirely his fault. Consider his socialization (or lack thereof). From the time that he was a small child until he was 12, he was on his own. He then gets roped into the Dragon Ball hunt by Bulma, plus has to defend himself from various entities trying to kill him like the Pilaf Gang and the Red Ribbon Army. And he joins up with Roshi, who teaches him fighting, not any ethics beyond "don't let innocent people get killed right in front of you." Then he gets roped into marriage - which he thought was something to eat for dinner when he agreed to it - by Chi Chi. Which is ... pretty much it in terms of his moral development. Everyone - Roshi, King Kai - except Gohan (who regrettably died) only taught him to fight. No one taught him the meaning of heroism, or its necessary components like justice, mercy and empathy. He is merely fortunate enough to be around others who know and have these things, and is an agreeable and even arguably goodhearted enough chap to do what they tell him to. But even there, a major reason why he does what Kai and others ask is because it gives him a chance to fight. James Bond author Ian Fleming states that he doesn't regard Bond as a hero, but rather an instrument, a tool, to be used by the state (which hopefully has good motives). That best describes Goku ... a tool that can be called on. It merely just so happens that this tool is in the hands of King Kai, than, say, Frieza, Bibidi or King Vegeta. Well that is not fair and goes too far ... Goku even as a child had a strong aversion hurting innocent people and a desire to prevent it from happening. (At least after hitting his head wiped out the conditioning.) Still, his heroism does tend to be mostly "people who do have heroic goals asking for his help." Otherwise he really would rather spend his time training and waiting for the next thrilling fight as opposed to proactively hanging around the hall of justice monitoring for natural disasters, supervillains, wars etc. |
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thepepin
Posts: 69 |
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This same bright eyes and smiling face did nothing on the ship to the trials to prevent Leeorio and Kurapika from murdering each other over the equivalent of one stepping on the other's Nikes. Not even an obligatory "hey guys another time OK? they may be watching us" which would have been an absolute minimum. That was the first clear evidence that Gon was not inclined to heroism and things only went downhill from there. |
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Duckems
Posts: 5 |
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Good read! I'm always glad to see more writing that probes into Hunter x Hunter's most cynical elements and deals with the fact that Gon's a busted child whose entire worldview was primed to equate power with maturity from the minute Kite saved him and then saddled him with the image of his absent father as the apotheosis of adulthood; it's only inevitable that when he reaches his maximum potential through sacrificing his future he sees himself as a grotesque caricature of himself as an adult. Also glad to see another writer further up in the thread point to Medaka Box as one of the best sustained critiques of the whole Shonen Jump/nekketsu mindset; I know deconstruction has become both a trendy way to summarize any artwork that's vaguely self-critical and a sign to the lazier thinkers that an argument is pretentious/easily dismissed, so I'm glad when others offer more sustained and developed critiques.
The thing is, this has often felt like Togashi's BIG thematic concern, with Gon's arc ending on him settling down to a normal life after his nen dries up and Yusuke feeling utterly empty each time he plateaus in power before he ultimately decides that he's better off settling down. I actually wrote about this a bit more in depth for Otaku USA a few years back: https://otakuusamagazine.com/power-is-for-the-weak/ . Looking back the prose and summary are a little weaker than I'm happy with now, but I still think it hits many of the same points you're onto while developing them to other ends, too. |
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Wyvern
 Posts: 1598 |
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Gon is such a fascinating lead because the darkness and selfishness in him is there from the very start, but we're conditioned by the story to overlook them. Gon initially comes off as sweet, naive, and unflinchingly positive. He's more of a child than most other shonen heroes, and he exudes so much youthful energy that the reader tends to overlook his flaws as just part of him being a kid. Which they largely are.
BUT, he's a kid who has taken on responsibilities and burdens far greater than anything most adults go through. Gon is a child but he doesn't LIVE like a child. He doesn't go to school. He wanders the world unsupervised. He's had dealings with organized crime. He gets involved in violent fighting tournaments and covert military operations. He has killed people. And all of these things have weighed on him, have changed him. In short, he has the psyche and worldview of a child but the life experience of an adult who has seen way too much. Inevitably, something had to give, and the inherent recklessness of Gon's actions would eventually lead to serious consequences. And that's what makes him such a fantastic character. All these childlike traits which are written as positive and endearing (and they are!) which allowed him to save Killua through sheer compassion and optimism, those traits are also dangerous flaws because of the life he's chosen. He believes, like a kid would, that everything will be okay because Kite, a grownup, said it would be. Eventually it becomes obvious to the reader and to the characters that Kite is dead, but Gon is the last person to believe it, because on some level he still can't accept that something that awful can really happen. He's treated being a hunter like a fun adventure up to this point, with every negative consequence of his adventures either being reversed, or being suffered by someone else. But with Kite's death, Gon finally is shaken by the full scope of his decisions. That's when the true consequences of being a Hunter finally stare Gon in the face, when he realizes that the reason so few people become Hunters isn't because the exam is tough but because this way of life will kill you. It's kind of a masterstroke for Togashi to have Gon transform into an adult version of himself, because that is the moment when Gon's childhood truly ends. |
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 387 |
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Just because someone never considers themselves a hero or assumes "the mantle" so to speak does not mean he/she is not a hero. Gon is a hero. He isn't always heroic, and perhaps he fell from grace as it were. But as the author explains, Gon is a hero throughout the story. Killuas redemption, bringing people together, inspiring experienced hunters in their interactions, etc. You can hardly say Gon isn't a hero in a lot of ways. But he's not heroic in every way. He's selfish. He's naive to a fault (although this can be seen in multiple ways). He's incredibly prone to emotional response in excess. There is an argument to be made that at the end of the chimera arc he is no longer the hero because almost nothing about his actions are heroic, but is instead consumed with vengeance and hatred. He needs saving. I'd just say that I viewed this more in the sense that Gon failed. And the cost of failure for a hero can be quite high. I don't know that we can be too harsh - the challenge posed to Gon was formidable. He chose Kurapikas path.
It's something that makes me love HxH, but also frustrated because we know the story is not done. Clearly, we are catching the story in the middle. How do we come back from failure? How does the hero change? That is yet to be seen. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5935 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Really interesting article. It made me think more on Hunter X Hunter. Thanks.
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tintor2
 Posts: 2116 |
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To be honest, sometimes the best parts of Hunter x Hunter are the ones without Gon. Kurapica completly stole the Spider arc while Meruem had the most notable arc in the Chimera. Gon was the lead in the Greed Island but the whole new battle system was discarded so quickly that it felt like Togashi kept changing the series. What people tend to point out on Gon is his revenge about Kite but only lasts two episodes and Kite doesn't even die which removes all the impact of the previous scenes.
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
 Posts: 523 Location: PH |
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I have watched both HxH and Dragon Ball Z, and between the two I have been more of a HxH fan rather than Dragon Ball Z due to the background story of each character, of course our awesome main four guys, and their character development.
Although, I will have to say, right after the Chimera Arc that's the time that I lost my interest with Gon. When spoiler[Gon woke up after Killua saving him thru his little sister's powers,] basically Gon doesn't seem to return the same level of friendship (like let's say depth or emotions) as Killua... Of course with the character background of our awesome assassin, it makes sense as to why Killua sees Gon that way (as said in the article, Gon as his light), but still... the degree of friendship wasn't the same. And watching the first few episodes of HxH, especially during the Hunter Exam where spoiler[they were stuck in a room with two doors], it's ironic because Gon really focused on friendship from the start. Even he focused on trying to be able to pass the test with friends -- achieving something with his friends. But I guess, Chairman predicted early already that Gon's values would be tested as he continues to be a hunter. Definitely, this is a great article to read. Going back on the concepts of a shonen hero and analyzing both Goku and Gon's journey as a "hero"... man. I guess this can be seen as one of the reasons as to why us DBZ and HxH fans continue to be fans. 
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Souther
 Posts: 606 |
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My thoughts on Gon: While I think Gon's fundamentally good at his core, he does display abnormal behaviour/traits throughout the series that others are (rightfully) wary of. The Chimera Ant arc puts Gon into a situation where not only these aspects are turned against him, but even his positive traits and worldview (which are typical of shounen protagonists as the article points out), in order to corrupt and break him.
As said above, Gon's a child (albeit an exceptional one), and more importantly, before he became a Hunter, he was able to retain his childhood for the most part and thus still has a child's view of the world. While the other main characters (Killua, Leorio and Kurapika) are also young, they experienced things in their childhood that forced them to "grow up" beyond their years so their view of the world is more complex than Gon's. The main issues that work against Gon in the CH arc, other than his tenacity and willingness to go to extreme lengths to achieve his goal, are his childish sense of fair play and his desire for strength to achieve his goals to be able to defend himself and his pride, and, more importantly, protect his friends. His desire for strength and his friends: Throughout the series, Gon's usually at a disadvantage against his tougher enemies and victimised because he's a child, main example being Hisoka. In a world where the cost of being weak means humiliation at best and the loss of your life/your friends at worst, it's understandable that Gon feels he cannot afford to be weak and to surrender to his opposition. He goes above and beyond to protect those he cares for and would rather die himself than see any of them hurt. He's also impressionable and admires strength in others (i.e. Kite and Kurapika), explaining some of his behaviour later on. His sense of fair play: When he sees one of the Phantom Troupe mourning one of their own, he gets angry because he believes they're hypocrites and don't have the right to feel that way when they've killed so many without remorse. It conflicts with his view because they're evil as far as he's concerned. During Greed Island, during his fight with Genthru, Gon initially doesn't go through with the plan he devised with Killua and Biscuit to defeat Genthru and decides to fight Genthru on his own terms to prove his strength. But when Genthru lies to Gon and attacks him when his guard's down, Gon is enraged and immediately enacts the plan, ending the fight on the spot. So we get to Pitou and they pretty much hit all of Gon's triggers. They hurt someone close to Gon, strike one. They muddle Gon's sense of fairplay when they beg Gon to allow them to care for Komugi. In Gon's mind, it enrages him that they have the audacity to ask that of him when they slaughtered someone he cared about without a second thought. As far as he's concerned, Pitou's a monster, and even before he came across Pitou, Gon came to believe the Ants were monsters due to those he fought earlier before Kite was attacked. Kite did foreshadow that Gon would run into trouble if he came across an Ant that challenged this worldview. So that's strike two. Gon's desperate to get what he wants and takes all the wrong lessons from Kurapika, using threats and coercion to dominate and control the situation, hitting a new low. Finally, Gon finds out not only Pitou lied to him, but was also going to kill him. Strike three. Gon again takes a leaf out of Kurapika's book and uses a vow to get the power he needs to annihilate Pitou. But the main fuel for Gon's actions were guilt that he was too weak to protect someone he loved from dying. He believes he's responsible for Kite's death and it sends him spiralling into despair. So to summarise, he's a child put into a cruel situation that tested everything about him. It doesn't excuse his actions in the slightest, but he was set up to fail from the very beginning. I do have a few nitpicks about the article: firstly Gon doesn't abandon Mito, he had a bet with her, which he won and she honoured, much to her objection. Secondly, despite Gon's desire to restore Kite, he still cared about the lives of others, as seen when he wanted to save civilians from the selection process. Thirdly, I don't think he resented Killua for saving him and denying him from fighting Pitou at the time, in fact, Gon thanks Killua for doing that. It's that Gon feels Killua doesn't understand how he feels and believes it's easy for Killua to be cool and logical when he asked Gon to comply with Pitou, because he isn't close to Kite like he is. |
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2-2Distracted
Posts: 150 |
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Not gonna lie, this article kinda lost me once it started talking about consequences and the Goku being the so-called "Shonen standard". A majority of the time shonen protagonists will differ greatly from Goku and when that happens it rings to me that Gon's design and characterization throughout HxH isn't all that noteworthy after all, and I guess I have to thank the many many youtube videos and reddit for helping me see that.
Don't get me wrong, Gon IS interesting, but I wish we could just talk about what makes him interesting without having to make lackluster comparisons. This article sure likes to ignore consequences for DB when it suits it, because it's made clear in stuff like Return of F that Goku's habit of sparing opponents is indeed a bad one, Whis literally had to rewind time and chastise Goku for sparing Frieza AGAIN. Goku even in early dragon ball wasn't all that heroic either. And this doesn't just extend to Gon, it can extend to almost every popular main shonen protagonist. - Naruto didn't want to be Hokage to save and protect everyone, he wanted to be Hokage so that everyone who hated him would have to respect him. - Ichigo isn't going around trying to save everyone and their mother across all of the different worlds he visits, he just wants to protect his own town and his own people. If he didn't he'd actually do something about the messed up system of how Soul Society and Hueco Mundo operate. - Luffy isn't trying to become Pirate King for the sake saving & freeing others, he just wants to man with the most freedom. Zoro even makes a point of telling the difference between a hero and pirate. And despite all this, these characters are at the end of the still the hero, no matter how each author wants to stretch that definition or swear that it doesn't fit with their respective protagonists, and Gon is no different. No hero outside of Superman is going to be entirely selfless and smart about how they do their thing. I find it ironic that the article talks about consequences being less of a thing in HxH when Gon is literally brought back from the brink of death by a walking talking Deus ex Machina in the form of Killua's sister, and Kite is then reincarnated into some little girl thus throwing out the window any sense of real lasting consequences. Hell, Gon loses his Nen but is told that he can get it back eventually. It also brings up Gon's messed up attempt at rescuing Kite, but this is no different than Naruto's messed re-attempt to rescue Sasuke at the start of the timeskip, or Gohan becoming a complete selfish and sadistic jackass in the Cell Saga. Togashi may bring this all to forefront & exaggerate but really so do a lot of mangaka. The article also brings up Togashi wanting to “able to write battles without having moral conflicts within the character,” but how many manga ACTUALLY do that tho? Luffy has no issue with killing, Ichigo's issue with killing is beaten out of him in the 2nd arc, most of the time Tanjiro kills is for no other reason than to put demons out their misery as opposed to pure heroics, Itadori never questioned his killing of curses until Shibuya Incident arc, and Naruto created a technique so powerful the only reason he barely uses it and thus had to improve it is because it would sooner kill him rather than later, as opposed to fixing it because he almost murdered someone. I don't know, overall this article feels like it was something that someone like youtuber Aleczandxr wrote where it tries a little too hard to make Gon sound like he's truly something out of the ordinary when he's obviously not that this point. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5935 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Gon is not a child. A child goes to school (or is home schooled). A child doesn't do mature things. Once a child starts doing mature things, that child no longer considered a child. Really it is the innocence of childhood that makes people think you are a child. Yes, there is the legal age standard, where legally he is considered a child, but that doesn't pertain to our discussion of maturity. This is crazy anime world, where Gon's mom let him do most anything he wanted. Like go catch the crazy monster fish. Gon could really be considered an adult in their world, when he left home. He didn't run away, His mom let him go. But really, once Gon entered the crucible that is the Hunter's Entrance Exam, that is where he ceased being a child. Nobody that graduates through that process is a child anymore. |
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