Forum - View topicIs it legit if it's "licensed" in Malaysia?
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Ishmoo
 Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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Maybe I'm a bit behind the times here, but I just noticed that there are a LOT of English subbed animes being sold as "Factory sealed. Licensed. New in Box" that haven't been released in the US yet. Most are from Malaysia, Korea, and Hong Kong. I found them all over the place on several different sites selling "new" anime. Presumably these ARE licensed in those countries so are prefectly legal, or are they? I have a few questions about this for those of greater knowledge on this forum.
1. If other countries are subbing anime into English and profiting from it by selling it to Americans why can't Japanese companies do this themselves as well? Or it is just more profitable for them to get that American licensing deal? 2. How much damage does this practice do to the American industry, especially since some of these titles haven't been released here yet? 3. Do you think it's ethical to buy them? Some people probably buy these without noticing the country of origin and think, since they say "Licensed" on them that they are supporting the American Anime Industry. On the other hand, the countries did purchase a licensing agreement from Japan so they are still supporting the artists. Right? I'm confused. Please help me out here folks. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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First, very few licenses have worldwide distribution rights; most of them only allow the licensed and translated title to be distributed in a specific country or region. The Internet commerce and globalization have changed everything, and while most companies keep an eye closed on individuals purchasing DVD that are not in his/her region, it is still illegal and license holders can take actions against large scale importations. Second, while Hong Kong and Malaysia titles are mandatory to have English subtitles, some Korean companies have bad histories of including English subtitles without authorization. Third, where did you see those titles with "Factory sealed. Licensed. New in Box" labels? Malaysian government has no expertise to tell bootlegs from legitimate products. Don't tell me you saw them on eBay.
As I said, selling those discs in US is not entirely legal. For the latter part of your question: maybe, maybe not, but don't expect those "English subs by Japanese" will be well accepted by US customers. Just look at the recent BVUSA bashing.
I can't answer this question, and I don't think anyone can, for you can't "experiment" on the damage by setting up control groups.
Yes and no, depending whom you asked. Cross-country commerce on licensed products can harm the domestic licensing industry for an economically inferior country, but this wouldn't apply to US. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I think this is exactly what needs to be done. This way the studios can milk us die hard fans who are willing to spend 5,000+ yen for a release with subs only as soon as the Japanese DVD is available yet keep the market open in R1 land for a later cheaper dub version. This is what Studio Ghibli has been doing with their releases which tend to have gorgeous 4 disc editions (recently with dubs as well) for collectors out there for a rather high price. If you listen to Chris Beveridge and Zak's recent interviews at TRSI they point out the ever growing difference between die hard otaku and casual viewers. It is becoming increasingly important that companies acknowledge this since the $30 for 4 episodes price point is failing. If you look at amazon.com's best selling titles you will see that they are filled with Anime Legends, and other complete collections. Companies like Bandai Visual Japan should put subtitles on their R2 releases for those who want to spend that much episodes for 2 episodes of sub only material and leave the R1 license open for other companies. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Yeah right. That's what BVUSA is trying to do, and see how ANN users react. 
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I did inititally notice them on Ebay, but I got curious and tried looking for Nana (which hasn't been released here yet with subs) online and right away found over 10 sites selling it as "new." I'm sure there are more. Not all of them claim it to be licensed specifically, only a few state that outright. Though someone buying this as "new" at an on line store might make that leap even if it isn't said directly. I had originally posted the names of some of these sites but one was automatically recognized by ANN censors as a "known bootlegger" so I edited out the list. I wouldn't have noticed it as a bootleg site right away myself so I'm glad for the tip. Some of these LOOK as legit as the next place and, since there are some companies that are actually licensed to sell anime (like Odex) I wasn't sure if they were or not. It seems like it can be hard to tell. Especially if, like you said, many of them may be "licensed" but not to sell out of their own region. It's a problem for those of us on a limited budget that do sometimes buy things online. I occasionally buy some titles used on ebay, though I prefer to purchase them new. After I posted this I found a thread on "How to spot bootleggers" so I'll be consulting that before buying. Thanks for the help! |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I found one that said this on eBay and it was definitely a bootleg. Bootleggers really have no qualms about looking legitimate. The few bootlegs that I personally own even have the copyright information, which is rather hilarious.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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There are two types of bootlegs: cheap-looking trash and "perfect copy;" the latter includes copyright information as well as contact information of the legitimate licensee. With information like "spotting bootleg" thread, only the most uninformed customer would accidentally buy bootlegs, and the rise of high quality digial fansubs has hurt the sales of those trashy bootlegs significantly (ironic, isn't it?), thus there are more and more "perfect copies" on the market. However, for their own sake they can't be 100% identical, for retail salesperson would not be able to tell them apart and all incomes might go to the legimate licensee ("Hey, didn't we ship only 100 copies to [shop selling both legit and bootleg]? How come they told us 110 copies were sold?") Those "perfect copies" often have a slightly blurry cover plus a tiny line of fine print (such as an IRC channel or email) to identify the source of this bootleg product. Without careful examination even an experienced customer could fall for it. |
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Clodus
 Posts: 497 Location: Kansas |
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I'm one of the idiots who fell into the bootleg trap and i'm trying to replace all my current bootlegs with legitimate versions. i fell for the twelve kingdoms, elfen lied, scrapped princess and vision of escaflowne boxsets on ebay. The scrapped princess one had japanese characters on the back. I should have known better but that was 2 years ago
i ultimately learned to buy anime just from well known sites like right stuff. its against the rules to link bootlegs but there are some pretty dam close ones that look authentic. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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Yeah, I looked through my collection and unfortunately two could be bootlegs, though really nicely produced ones. Since I strictly buy the duel audio now it might be easier to avoid. I still like to buy second hand because its cheaper, but all of the ones I bought from ebay that included English dubbed are ok.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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You can copy its image to your computer then repost it to a picture hosting service (Photobucket, Imageshack, etc.). |
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Clodus
Posts: 497 Location: Kansas |
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wow I'm surprised they are still selling. i remember looking back on my eBay past transitions a while back and saw the user's account closed down. heres some just from a quick search that look identical to the ones i bought. i didn't know back then and was poorly educated in buying anime. all that mattered was the price back then. I checked from other sites like amazon to compare prices and noticed they look slightly different but didn't give it a second thought.
these are all in fact bootlegs. a series of screenshots from bootleggers |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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The bootlegs that I bought have the English dub on them, so that isn't necessarily a sign that it's legit. The ones I have are definitely just copies of the original release, but with more episodes on each DVD than an official release would typically have. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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The price difference on these isn't that great anyway. I'll just wait and buy from sources I KNOW sell legally. That way, I won't have to try and distinguish the bootlegs. Luckily, I ordered a lot from Amazon or bought directly from my local movie store, so those have to be fine. At least I hope so.
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hagakure|returns
Posts: 407 |
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If you're looking for legit import, make sure you know what to look for. 98% of the anime sold on ebay from an asian countries outside of Japan is bootleg. These bootleg seller will claim that they are legit because they have fancy packaging. And these seller make a killing off of anime sales on ebay. Especially when they avoid paying licensing cost, tax and other cost associated with putting out a legit product. And labor in those country are not that high, so it's not costly to hire a few skilled worker to put the product together. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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Thanks. Not to worry. I'll be sure to get it from a reliable source now that I know better.
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