Forum - View topicWhy are the moderators so rude?
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freshkazuki
 Posts: 235 Location: Texas |
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I posted some information on the manga Pick of the Litter last night. I submitted under the English staff as translators "Alethea & Athena Nibley" because that is exactly how they were listed next to translators in the first volume. So I get a rude private message from your moderator DORMCAT saying the following:
"DO NOT submit names of couple / siblings as ONE INDIVIDUAL! Do it one more time and I'll have you banned." What an kind of over reaction is THAT? I'm gonna be banned for submitting information to your website. Information that might NEVER be posted if I don't do it. Banning someone that visits your site EVERYDAY and is trying to contribute data to your site? Another example of the fine work your moderators are going, from SELENTA. When a poster asked the question whether Anima+ was going to be made into an anime, before any other forum members could reply, SELENTA wrote this: "What do we look like, psychics? Does it say anything about it in the manga entry in the encyclopedia? Is there an entry for an anime? If you answered no to both of the last questions, then what do you think that means? Actually, it doesn't mean no, it just means probably no. If we knew anything, it would be in there." And then the topic was locked. Why did she/he/it have to be a smartass? It was a valid question. These moderators are jerks. Complete jerks. If you have these people working for you, I don't even WANT to participate in your forums and encylopedia. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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What you did resulted a "person" with the given name "Alethea & Athena," another useless, non-deletable entry (i.e. dead entry) in the Encyclopedia. Entering the two living individuals as one showed that you lacked common sense, and the Encyclopedia does not need people without common sense. I've seen numerous stupid mistakes, but as far as I know you are the first one submitting two persons as one.
It has been licensed in North America, so I'm pretty sure that someone else would post it in no time.
That doesn't make you a contributor with quality. Furthermore, since you have no decency and publicized the private message I sent to you, let's see what you've written to me in return:
I'm so afraid. Go ahead and make my day. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10463 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Wow.
No one's getting banned. Not Dormcat, not freshkazuki. Freshkazuki, I apologize on behalf of ANN. Dormcat's reactions were not in line with what I feel is an appropriate reaction to your mistake. I don not condone rudeness on ANN on the part of any one, reader, volunteer or editorial staff. Dormcat however is a very important contributor to ANN and I will not ban him, or accept that anyone threaten to ban him, over 1 incident provided there is no clear malice in that incident. Dormcat deal with a lot of people that continue to enter unacceptable information into the encyclopedia even after numerous warnings, and it is understandable that he can get frustrated occasionally. As I said, I apologize and I appreciate you bringing this matter to my attention. Christopher Macdonald Editor in Chief Anime News Network |
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freshkazuki
Posts: 235 Location: Texas |
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It also seems like one of Dormcat's contributions is pissing off people. Those two translators work as a team. If you did a Works Cited page in a formal paper, you would cite them as "Nibley, Alethea & Athena". So that's what I was thinking. Forgive me for going to college Dormcat. I don't think this is an occasional incident with Dormcat getting worked up either. I think he is like this ALL the time. If he would have wrote a polite email just saying, hey don't enter those names like that next time, I would've wrote back a polite email. I don't want people writing me private messages, especially when they are threats to be banned from the site. Put it out in public so everyone can see that you are a jerk and see that I just made an honest mistake. I think moderators like this chase people away from the site. Because I'm thinking about banning MYSELF! I come to your site everyday. I add to the encyclopedia here and there. I buy your magazine. And for Pick of the Litter, I get my head bitten off. Long live Alethea & Athena Nibley!  I understand Dormcat is important to your site, but you might want to start looking for a replacement, because a moderator needs to be "moderate" in temper. He/she needs to be diplomatic. And patient. I've seen it happen too many times on this site where moderators are just mean. We are your patrons and should be treated with respect. There are a lot of alternate websites out there we can go to for anime and manga news.
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Please stop saying those things about dormcat. That is a form of libel, which I take pretty seriously and it is not a good way to prove a point. I find that dormcat is an important contributor to the site and deals with a lot of information that is incorrect or submitted in not quite the correct format. I don't think he is a "jerk" in any way. It's really hard to read/write emotion over the Internet, so I don't think any of the moderators truly mean to sound rude. I'm sorry, but I just cannot take such statements seriously when all they are comprised of is insults and judgements.
Technically, it would be written "Nibley, Alethea and Athena Nibley." |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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And they would still be two separate individuals, and therefore require two separate entries in the Encyclopedia. Unless they are joined at the hip physically (and mentally), the probability exists that they are someday going to work on separate projects. When that occurs, we are going to have a problematic entry in the Encyclopedia, all because freshkazuki failed to think ahead. I do not consider dormcat remarks to be more rude than necessary (I might have said much the same thing, myself), and I think freshkazuki's reaction is childish and petulant. I won't comment on Chris' apology, that is his business, but I do not subscribe to it. - abunai |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10463 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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For the record, Dormcat is an encyclopedia editor, not a moderator. I don't disagree, but I just wanted to clear up the distinction in case it makes any difference to you. As for whether or not the two people should be separated, we separate them because the Encyclopedia creates an entry for each person when you submit them as staff or cast in an anime/manga. Obviously these are two separate people, who will have different details each, so it makes no sense to include them as a single entry in the encyclopedia. What does make sense is to add a comment to each of them stating "Often works with his brother ... "
I've already apologized for the incident and spoken about it privately with Dormcat. There is no more that I can do at this time, I will not dismiss all the positive work that any person has done for this site because of a single mistake. Just like you deserved a friendly PM to inform you what you did wrong, and how it should be done in the future, Dormcat deserves the same. I hope this is enough for you, and that you do not chose to stop supporting ANN with your time & contributions, but if it is not, I apologize, but it is all that I will be doing for now. -t |
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jgreen
 Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Since pretty much all the responses so far have been from staff, I just wanted to point out as an outside observer that reading what dormcat sent to freshkazuki, my first thought was "Wow, what a d***-headed thing to say." Which it really is. There's no reason to "yell" at someone (which is what the all caps is, really) over such a tiny mistake, nor was there any reason whatsoever to threaten banning someone out of the blue, especially when one doesn't even have the authority to do that.
That said, this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this from dormcat, who is generally one of the more personable posters on the forum, and a fun person to converse with. Obviously, I don't think anyone needs to be banned (the very idea of it in this instance is pretty silly) and I'm glad to see tempest responded with a cool head. Now let's all go get a beer and forget this nastiness. 
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eyesopen0791
 Posts: 108 Location: A Sleepy Town in California |
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Actually dormcat does have authority in this case since this was a person trying to add to the encyclopedia and dormcat is an encyclopedia editor, which tempest mentioned earlier. You have a different impression of dormcat than what I've seen. Fun yes, smart yes, warm and fuzzy not. He just isn't. There are some ANN staff that come across in forums as smart and patient and kind and some staff that also sound smart but at the same time impatient and abrasive, and those two last qualities end up ticking off people, no matter if same people were behaving stupidly to get that kind of attention. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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I merely treat different people with different types of responses. 
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eyesopen0791
Posts: 108 Location: A Sleepy Town in California |
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To dormcat: On a seemingly completely contradictory note, I want to say thank you for explaining sharpening, contrast and saturation to improving avatars in another thread. I've never used photo editing tools before going on this site, and your incidental explanations of how to use all those buttons helped me in making a sharper looking avatar.
If this makes me seems like a contradictory sort of person, actually it just shows I'm a complex person, as all individuals are.
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-gecko-
 Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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There were times in the past when I had the same notion as the subject of this thread. It seemed that the mods were quite nasty, especially during summer and spring reaks when all the so called 'nubes' popped up.
It really ticked me off at the time, but I realized that there are several hundred posts here within a short period of time; the mods have their hands full in attempting to keep this site at at least a decent inteligence level while still allowing free expression and fan enjoyment. When I come across a seemingly scathing comment from the mods, I now try to understand the reasoning for such comment. It usually stems from un unintelligent or wishy-washy post. |
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woelfie
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 380 Location: Belgium |
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Not so much to throw stones at anyone, I just wanted to state that me too, I'm getting more and more frustrated/angry to people who enter wrong information while it should be so easy to enter it correctly :
1. When submitting new staff, the text (which of course nobody reads) says :
In the situation concerned, it should be clear that "Alethea & Athena Nibley" is not a person, but two people together. I know you're not the first to make that mistake (take a look in the ANN list of people wihtout family name, there are a lot of entries which doesn't belong there at all), but at lease some correct reading should have avoided your mistake. If two (or more) people always (triple stressed) act as one entity (e.g. in case of pop bands), it should be entered as 'new company' not 'new staff'. 2. When you tried to submit "Alethea & Athena Nibley" as staff member, you have received a notice that that name was not yet in the encyclopedia. A small search would have revealed that the separate names did already exist (here and here). Far too few people do any search in the encyclopedia. If you enter a new name, double check whether or not the entry already exists, it will spare you (and us) additional work. An additional problem for us is that the combined name can't be merged with one of the two existing entries, because it's not a duplicate of either of them. Of course you didn't have to think of the consequences of that action. 3.
Correction : they sometimes work together as a team. If you would have looked at the separate pages (see point 2 above), there are differences. And I checked my copy of 'Shaolin Sisters: Reborn'. Only Alethea is credited as translator. So there was no need at all to create a new entry with both of them together. I'm sort of compiling information on duplicate entries and wrong entries, even apart from the duplicate persons topic. Believe me, there are hundreds of entries who are just copied wrong by the contributor. Easy to avoid, but a burden to the encycopedia staff who has to manage those duplicates (mainly dormcat). Given the number of contributors who laugh in our face after spamming the encyclopedia, we're not jerks, but we deal with them all the time (and no, you're not one of them, or we would have banned you without warning). I could have rephrased it a bit more polite, but the content would have been exactly the same. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Em, wait a second here.  As you can see, we've already have groups as staffs like Ali Project, L'Arc-en-Ciel, Peach-Pit, and, last but not least, CLAMP. In fact, CLAMP also has a company entry, which makes the situation even more complex. In some worse cases, the two-part name of the group (band, circle, etc.) became family and given name, like Choro Club, and those can't be corrected with ease.
A big disadvantage for adding them as companies is that no non-anime cast/staff position could be added. Like what I've already said almost two years ago: the best solution would be a special category that can accommodate multiple persons, but it is not available with the current system, so we just have to be patient... |
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woelfie
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 380 Location: Belgium |
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[Since there is no option 'strikethrough', I'll just correct myself here (and not above to not disturb people by disrupting the logical discussion sequence)] If two (or more) people always act as one entity (e.g. in case of pop bands), it should be entered as 'new group' or 'new multi-person-entity' (but preferably not under that terminology). As you say, dormcat, we have to be patient (as we are with the users  ).
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