Forum - View topicHow to make a good superhero anime series.
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Lycosyncer
Posts: 526 |
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With past examples from what Marvel (Iron Man, Wolverine, X-Men, and Blade) and DC (Batman:Gotham Knight) has tried to attempt to appeal to the Japanese market with their brand characters with overall poor to mixed results, what do you think they should do and not do when attempting to make a new Superhero show for their Japanese audiences?
From what I have gathered, the recent series Tiger & Bunny seems to have done very good and is so far, a very successful Superhero anime series where I heard that it premiered the last two episodes of the series in movie theatres! I don't I have ever heard of any TV show popular enough to show one of their episodes on the big screen. So what lessons should Marvel and DC learn from something like Tiger & Bunny? Where did that show do greatly where Marvel and DC failed with their attempts at making anime? |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Were any of those productions even really intended to target Japanese fans? I got the impression that they were focusing more on the eventual American market from the start.
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4634 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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I believe the Marvel anime were at least in part an attempt to expand Marvel's viability in Japan and Asia as a whole, Marvel isn't huge in the East and these were attempts to expand on the success of the movies.
Wasn't Heroman also relatively successful in Japan? I think what that and T&B did that the Marvel anime failed spectacularly to do was to make a true hybrid of West and East. The concepts came from the West but the writers were from the East and told stories Japanese audiences felt comfortable with. Whereas the Marvel (I can't speak for Batman) anime largely seemed like projects outsourced to Japan. Not only were the concepts western but the stories themselves were plotted by a western writer. They may be set in Japan and the designs were made my Madhouse but they may as well have not been. Madhouse were given the script duties and presumably had the chance to put more of a mark on the shows but I think they instead tried to copy western story-telling too closely. They weren't asking "How would we normally tell this story" they instead seemed to be asking themselves "How would they tell the story" and tried copying that. Not a recipe for a good story. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18496 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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As someone who was an American comic fan for more than 20 years, I fully agree with this. Aside from the visits to Japan and tweaking a couple of the characters to be more in line with Japanese archetypes, the X-Men series (the only Marvel series that I've fully watched out so far) felt much more like an American production aimed at more mature comic book fans; hell, the recent X-Men: First Class live-action movie felt far more teen-friendly than Madhouse's version did. Except for radically changing Storm's personality, it didn't feel like an anime series at all. If they wanted to appeal more to Japanese fans, they should have tried doing something more like the Marvel Mangaverse experiment that Marvel did a few years ago. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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Actually it's the opposite. These were never really made with America in mind (similar to Powerpuff Girls Z and Stitch!) They were made specifically by Marvel, who commissioned the animation from Japan in order to penetrate the Japanese market, which isn't really into American superhero comics. They wanted to get some of that otaku pie. Well, maybe they made them with both audiences in mind (which is probably what doomed them) Try to please everyone, and please no one in the end, since a lot of comic fans seem to be hating on these shows as well, while Japanese fans ranked them as the worst show for each of their seasons. Though the difference between Marvel anime and, say, Powerpuff Girls Z, like people said, is that Western comic book writers were the ones writing the Marvel anime. So you can argue it's actually an American cartoon just animated in Japan if you really want to. If American comics aren't liked in Japan, then chances are it's not the wisest decision to have those writers at the head of your attempt at making Japan interested in your show. PPGZ and Stitch! were written by Japanese writers and they were met with very nice success. Those were more 'anime remakes' while the Marvel anime was more like Amerianime, like Avatar or Thundercats which maybe they tote is 'animated in Japan' but it's still written and done by Americans and still feel and play out very much like an American cartoon, and not an anime in the slightest bit. Just look at Iron Man. What does it start with? Tony as Iron Man and on a plane to go meet with some people. He's already Iron Man, there's no origin, no real build up or discovery. We don't know him, nor do we ever know him. They pretty much expect you to know who this guy is and everything about him from the first episode; which is a problem just about every superhero cartoon/comic/thing has. DC just rebooted their comics, yet Batman still has gone through 4 Robins in his backstory in the very first issue, so despite it being 'new', you still pretty much need to have read all the previous comics to get his entire history and know who he is and what he's about.. even with the fact none of those previous comics actually happened anymore. It's very.. confusing, to say the least Tiger & Bunny works because it's fresh, new, and creative, with just enough satire and parody to keep unique (sponsored superheroes plastered with company logos? Maybe a little jab at the American marketing mindset when it comes to these superheroes? Who knows, but it's funny and interesting) |
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Lycosyncer
Posts: 526 |
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If the comments from the IGN boards are any indicator, the two Marvel anime airing right now is not doing the anime name any good favors at all.
To be honest, I still haven't had the chance to watch Tiger & Bunny or Heroman. If a Superhero fan comes up to me if there are any good Superhero anime to recommend, would these two titles I've mention be good to give them? Plus, why hasn't these shows been licensed and dubbed yet? These shows seem perfectly adaptable to western audiences and the fact they still haven't got any attention yet is such a shame. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18496 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I thought Heroman was a great middle ground between American-styled and anime-style hero stories. A few random comments that I've heard have suggested that it wasn't terribly popular, which is a shame; I think it would be a good fit for some American cable channel. It's only been not quite a year past, so there's still hope that someone will pick it up.
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Lycosyncer
Posts: 526 |
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@Key
I think Stan Lee is still trying to bring Heroman over here for western audiences. By the way, what is the series rated? Judging by how it looks, it may fit into the Pokemon/Digimon age bracket or is it misleading to say that? If Heroman is brought over here and if it is a success for western audiences, wouldn't Studio Bones consider making more since the manga is still ongoing? I think it may deserve that chance. Plus, with Tiger & Bunny doing pretty good, I think that show has a much better chance of being brought over here and I think western audiences will like this series a lot better than the mediocre Marvel anime released right now. It can be good proof that anime can do Superhero shows pretty well and not be judged by how the Marvel anime are doing. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18496 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It features high school-aged characters and is a little more intense in places than your typical American super-hero cartoon, so my guess is that it was targeted at the upper elementary to high school-aged bracket (excepting obvious design appeal for American comic book and anime fans, of course). |
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Soundmonkey44
 Posts: 1243 |
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Personally I enjoy the Marvel Anime, they arn't the best animations of the various characters from a story standpoint, but they look nice, and are good for what they are. (Given I am Bias as a fan of Both Madhouse & Marvel, but yeah.)
I do agree thought that HeroMan (which I'm amazed still hasn't come to the states yet) and Tiger & Bunny (praying VIZ does a good Job with this one) are better shows overall. But yeah, IMPO theres nothing wrong with having anime versions of U.S. Heros. I myself would kill to see a Ghost Rider or Deadpool Anime. And on the DC side, personally I think a Wonder Woman anime would be fun. But yeah, I for one enjoy things like this because its a good way to get fans from both sides of the coin interested or at least accepting of the other side of the medium. (that is to say get Anime/Magna fans to look at U.S. Animations & Comics abit more & get U.S. fans to look at Anime & Manga abit more.) Anyway looking foward to seeing X-men & Blade's anime in english eventually. And hoping whatever superhero anime come out in the future, be they co-productions or origional ideas are somthing worth watching. |
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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I have been tripping about R.O.D the TV lately, but I really think that is the route to go when making a superhero series. It has a young girl, who is a superhero but is otherwise portrayed realistically, and is arguably the main character. It is still a real superhero series, and it has the majority of characters as adults, with her classmates in school as side characters. I think Marvel really ought to try adding more girls to their superhero lineup if they want to appeal to the Japanese market. Even R.O.D added the paper sisters long after the original novels with Yomiko Readman were already in print. That is because Hideyuki Kurata realized that it would allow a different angle and expand the market without damaging the authenticity of the series.
I am really hoping for sequels. It has been too long without R.O.D. I can watch the series on Hulu with subs, but it's not the same as a sequel. |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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Only if you consider selling less than 500 copies per volume successful. That's about as big a flop as possible, more so since it didn't look like it had a small budget. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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First of all, ouch that's awful. It wasn't a great show but I thought it was pretty solid. I certainly wasn't expecting it to flop, but that's Japan for you. Secondly, may I (kindly) ask where you get your figures from? Is it English-language? I sometimes use mania.com but I have no idea of how reliable they are. Cheers. |
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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That's pretty much the case: Warner was so struck with "The Animatrix" that they tried squeezing out a Batman tie-in, Marvel thought they were doing it for "anime style" and jumped on, and so on... All of them, however, missed one basic point--The Japanese don't really seem to UNDERSTAND Western comic-book heroes. (Leaving aside DBZ's Great Saiya-man, of course.) 
It's a question of basic cultural background: They have samurai, ninja, and their own delinquent martial artists; why would a millionaire or part-time reporter dress up in a cape and fly, and if he could, why would he waste his time on criminals? Even other English-speaking non-US countries can't quite jump on to what ethic drives our cultural identification with Superman (Canada had Alpha Flight and UK had Captain Britain, but they're not the most immediately identifiable Marvel characters), so maybe it does come out of our own national psyche, not theirs. Even from the two gaijin hire-jobs, the Japanese know that Wolverine and Iron Man are apparently heroes, but don't seem to have a grasp the particular subtleties of WHY: Wolverine, well he's...really tough and slashes things! And Iron Man has...lots of tech stuff, and gets involved in industrial conspiracies! (Should we tell them about Mutant Rights, and the Mandarin, or should we just let them be happy bluffing?) |
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