Forum - View topic"Why Anime Sucks."
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SecretAgent94
 Posts: 204 |
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Part 1
Part 2 Part 3 I don't know if there has been a discussion on here about this guy's videos concerning anime. I don't agree with his cynicism but he does raise a good point about the animation in well...anime. My question is why is it that lazy animation is so common in anime? I mean, the anime art style itself is beautiful but there is very little actual animation in many anime. I've never seen anime as fluid as a Disney movie, for instance. Anyway, I think we can agree that in terms of story/content, and art style, there is no comparison between anime and American cartoons. Anime is just better. But in terms of actual animation, Japanese animation tends to lag. Discuss.. |
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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I have to say I don't really care about the animation that much. A comic book doesn't need animation to be good. Neither does anime. People just need to to admit that. Particularly anime fans.
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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Seen it. Don't care.
His premise is flawed. While anime and Western cartoons are both animated goods. Anime does not move as much because anime cares more about conversations, shot composure, and scenery. Kind of like Live Action stuff where sometimes it is not important to show an actor walking from point A to point B but more important to show faces, postures while conversing, and key frames. Anime animation style and Western animation style are just apples and oranges. Picking out what makes them different is fine but saying those differences are "why anime sucks" is disingenuous. |
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Jessica Hart
 Posts: 219 |
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Wow, those videos are old. I remember watching those years ago.
Well one has a movie budget and the other has a TV budget.  It pretty much all comes down to money when anime is involved. Though the opposite is not true; American shows with big budgets can still look like garbage. What I'd like to know is why Danny Phantom has a bigger budget than One Piece yet looks ten times worse. So I'd like to think skill is also involved; since Japan can make some amazing looking shows with a very small budget. Though I think that video is a bit out dated (even for it's time), most US shows are animated in Adobe Flash these days to produce them quickly and cheaply. 90s shows like Tiny Toons had fluid animation, but all the newer stuff tends to look like complete garbage. So in that regard, all the Flash shows tend to not really be better animated.
From everything I read about both countries; Japan has the luxery of shifting budgets around; which is why you can have some episodes of Naruto look much better than other episodes. Japan gets a set budget for a batch of episode and can distribute the money as they see fit; putting more money into the action episodes while skimping out on the episodes that are mostly talking and exposition. In America, you only get money for a specific episode. America tends to strive for 'consistency', while Japan can play around and experiment more. I prefer that method more, since really if the characters just sit around and talk about their next move, they don't need thousands of dollars of animation thrown in; I'd rather they divert that time and money to the action scenes. |
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Captain X
 Posts: 253 |
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Pretty old, and seen it on other boards. Can't say I really agree with him all that much, as I can think of plenty of American Saturday morning cartoons from when I was a kid that didn't have the best animation either. I also don't like the tendency in the US to see anything animated as being for kids unless it's something that caters to adult humor, like South Park or Family Guy. While he does have valid points about the technical aspects of animation, in the end it's something I honestly don't really care about - I want a good story and interesting characters.
The only thing I do agree with him on has to do with the obsessive nature of certain fans, and I'm right there with him when it comes to pointing and laughing at that, but then I'd turn right around and point and laugh at him for watching SpongeBob SquarePants. 
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EmbraceMe
 Posts: 2017 Location: Growing old and jaded. |
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No offense to people who do watch this show here but... the arguments used by that dude can be applied for American animation/cartoons as well. So much about limited and full frame animation. I didn't even bother to listen to listen after five minutes of the second video.
Haters gonna hate. Fanboys/girls gonna praise. I'm gonna eat my rice. |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Man these videos are old. I remember not watching them before since the dude's demeanor is really off-putting.
I like how he's saying that animation quality is judged by how fluid it is (something I'm sure that even a lot of people on this forum believe!). Er, yeah. Right. The number of frames doesn't necessarily mean that one show is better animated than another. The budget situation has been spoken for. Wanna know how limited animation can still be fun to watch and dynamic (and ultimately more interesting that a lot of the homogenous offerings on American TV)? Basic stuff like layout, storyboarding, timing, shapes and allowing some of the individual characteristics of each animator's style be retained in the final product. A lot of anime isn't well animated, but at least they are shows directed by the likes of Yuasa and Imaishi that give you a sense that these guys are taking advantage of the medium. Animators and episode directors are given a lot more free rein to put in their style into a specific episode or scene, whereas that's actively discouraged in American animation. Lip-synching on American cartoons is pretty lame. I like the more stylized version along the lines of what you'll see on Toshiyuki Tsuru & Hirofumi Suzuki's episodes of Naruto. It's a lot more interesting than what seems to be shoehorned into cartoons nowadays due to some institutionalized standard (not saying that cost-cutting pans across some character flapping their mouths is better, but still). Spongebob is better animated than Eva. Yeah, right. I like Spongebob, but try to name somebody on the same level as Yoh Yoshinari, Mitsuo Iso, Takeshi Honda, etc. etc. If you want to name some of animation's strength in America, then mention the writing. I'm not too keen on the animation, but at least they use it in service of some well-written scripts at times. (I think I've typed my fill) |
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Aoi_Sakaraba
 Posts: 312 Location: Des Moines, Iowa |
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I feel like 90% of what he says is completely Irrelevant. Wheres his credibility?
He spends 60% of his talking time in videos saying "go ahead attack me". I can literally skim through his videos and not miss a thing. Wow what he does to make his videos seem longer. Edited the whole shot thing... If he was a Journalist he would be fired. Last edited by Aoi_Sakaraba on Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1525 |
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Don't really see much point to this topic I mean:
1-We're lall pretty much going to disagree with this guy in some large capacity or another. What more can anyone say besides "this guy is an inflammatory douche?" 2-It's just going to (well, probbly already has) drag the "anime vs. cartoons" argument kicking and screaming our again, and though some may disagree,I'm kind of tired it being repeated over and over again. Nothing to add here but raised hackles. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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I'm most likely going to be the only one who says this, but I thought his videos were hilarious.
And this is coming from someone who's been a long-time fan of American and Japanese cartoons. There aren't many American cartoon television shows that I care for nowadays (Batman:TBATB, Avatar, MLP:FiM), but Disney animated movies are still golden in my eyes. |
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Jessica Hart
Posts: 219 |
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That's true; just looking at frames per second is a bad way to rate animation. I put more interest in cinematography and direction than just the framerate. Seems like every cartoon just uses the same 3/4ths quarter view angle as standard. |
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ethanftw
 Posts: 107 |
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Meh, just another person's opinion whom we have to respect. Everyone is entitled to one after all.
While I do get the point of what he is saying, some of my favorite anime, or argueably some of the best anime to date lacks quality animation. Mainly because it is outdated. Castle in the Sky is my favorite Ghibli film to date, and it doesn't have that great of animation when compared to anime that is out now, but it doesn't draw me away from it by any means. DBZ is also awesome, and looking back its animation is sometimes lacking when compared to the anime that is out now. Its the same debate when talking about video games. Some people rage about how the graphics are poor or not up to their standards and other people are like "meh, who cares, it has a great story line and fun gameplay". |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2094 |
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His entire argument is this: "western animation is automatically better than anime in any regards simply because it has higher frame rate".
So by that logic, a flip-picture book is automatically better than anything professional artists have ever done. 
He also acts like anime doesn't tackle anything western animation does as well. I must be missing out on plenty of great cartoons that have material similar to Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, Black Lagoon, Higurashi, Paranoia Agent, Welcome to the NHK, Mushishi, etc. Not that I'm hating western animation, I love a good deal of it, but it is limited, there's no doubt. Sounds like someone who just didn't like anime elitists and TRIED to criticize them but went too far and made himself an elitist as well. |
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EricDent
 Posts: 997 Location: Georgetown, TX |
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You know for every good show, there are about a dozen bad ones.
Also about 90% of all animated stuff is done in Korea anyways. The reason that Disney stuff was so fluid was they studied real people moving while they were drawing. I can say that most of the Ghibli movies are pretty close to the Disney styles IMO. Whomever made those videos needs to explain how a show like 12 ounce mouse even got on the air, cause I would take a ton of crappy anime over that any day. Even something as bad as Eiken, or Garzy's Wing. |
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