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This Week in Anime - Retro Anime, Kickstarter, and Broken Promises


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juaifan



Joined: 20 Mar 2021
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:17 am Reply with quote
As far as empty Kickstarter promises go being bought out by another company is at least a decent excuse. Half the time it's just a whole lot of nothing and no reason why the video game never came out or just people bungling the funds.
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anime-prime



Joined: 17 Mar 2020
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:20 am Reply with quote
What's going on with Dirty Pair is pretty crazy, but not nearly as crazy as the kickstarter for Grisaia Phantom Trigger The Animation. I am kinda surprised it wasn't even mentioned in the column.
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merr



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 487
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:42 am Reply with quote
Has ANN asked Crunchyroll to comment on the Dirty Pair Kickstarter?
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4594
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:45 am Reply with quote
Crunchyroll, being the Diamond Distribution of anime already has a bad reputation with fandom elements and stuff like this does not help. I don’t know what the issue is, but the fact of the matter is, transparency is their friend, especially as they pass milestones like 15 million paying subscribers. If you are the industry leader, you are under a microscope, plain and simple. Make the backers whole, either with product, or if something catastrophic happened, a refund. It sucks, and Kickstarter technically leaves legitimate backers off the hook if they can show they acted in good faith, but the reputational damage will be catastrophic if the backers are not made whole.
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invalidname
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:49 am Reply with quote
Whether it's editorial discretion or pure politeness, it's probably for the best that this column didn't go beyond anime and into related Kickstarters like manga and games, which is a whole 'nother level of hurt. After all, just last month was the 11-year anniversary of the yet-to-ship Megatokyo visual novel Kickstarter.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:01 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Still, though, maybe crowdfunding has inherently limited applications in the anime sphere. I'm going wayyy back again, but AnimeSols seemed to do everything right. They went after niche titles. They let you stream the anime from the campaigns. The discs were nice and reasonably priced, and you could buy them off Right Stuf after they were fully funded. AnimeSols was especially dear to my heart because they were the first to give Dear Brother a physical set in the US. And they still folded after just a few years.


To be fair, Anime Sols was always considered more of a testing ground by the Japanese licensors that were involved with it, and even Sam Pinansky (who later founded J-Novel Club) stated that Anime Sols was considered a "success" by those licensors, since it barely cost anything for them in the long run (so they barely lost any money from it) & it created new partnerships between the licensors themselves. Plus, it was directly responsible for Discotek licensing the 1969 Dororo anime & putting that out on DVD, since it was one of the last real successful crowdfunding campaigns Anime Sols ever had.

However, and I went over this myself back in 2017 (& it has remained true ever since, sadly), the main conundrum when it comes to anime Kickstarters (& in particular the ones that aim to give titles home video releases) is that it's ironically too risky to go for the niche titles, despite the concept sounding like it'd be perfect for it.

When you look back at every anime KS that's been done in this fashion, almost every single one of them was for a re-release of something that had previously been released in English in the past. Aria, Emma, Dirty Pair, Escaflowne, Megazone 23, Bubblegum Crisis, Riding Bean, Otaku no Video, Dagger of Kamui, Gunsmith Cats, & even Skip Beat! all had some sort of prior English release, with SB! being the only one that was previously streaming-only. Mai Mai Miracle from Anime Limited was the literal only one that had an official English release done first via Kickstarter, but that was both a movie & was only five years old when Anime Limited announced its crowdfunding campaign for it, which reduced a lot of the risk, ironically enough. Even AnimEigo's Robert Woodhead himself once stated that he'd consider giving something a go via KS that hadn't previously been released in English before, but with only one more possible campaign left in him after Dagger of Kamui before retiring it doesn't seem likely that he'll actually go through with that.

Despite sounding like the perfect way for companies to give more obscure, forgotten, & niche anime a chance for an official English release, Kickstarter/crowdfunding likely wouldn't work out, simply because no one wants to be the first to actually fail because the title they chose was too unknown & therefore no one cared to support it, because it'd make them look really bad, and it'd send the wrong message to the Japanese licensors. Skip Beat! kind of was that, but that was because that campaign initially tried using IndieGoGo, and it's amazing that the licensors were willing to even give it a second chance via Kickstarter.

Simply put, no one's going to (hypothetically speaking) try to crowdfund releases for stuff like the Bari Bari Densetsu OVA & movie, the Fuma no Kojirou OVAs, Ring ni Kakero 1, Monkey Turn, Zaizen Jotaro, the Ozanari Dungeon OVA, the Rokudenashi Blues movies, Shinken Legend Tight Road, Violinist of Hameln, Yoiko, Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, Nessa no Haoh Gandalla, or any other smaller name anime that's never been licensed for English release before. Anime Sols suffered to a notable extent by not using Kickstarter (during what was essentially its heyday of notoriety), but even then it showed that anime fans honestly don't care about simply having more vintage/classic/retro anime available to watch officially in English... they only care about those titles that they already know of & are already fans of, because they're guaranteed to come out to support it, either in droves or in small numbers that are willing to spend big to support it. You can't really get people to spend literal hundreds of dollars to have their name appear first on a list of supporters (among other swag) for a title that they didn't even know existed beforehand.

I've come to feel that, in the end, you can't really make people care about something they knew nothing about before. You can only catch their interest & hope that those who are now interested already are the kind of people who would care beforehand, and that's honestly a small percentage of people.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:21 am Reply with quote
I had forgotten about this one. Hopefully all this hubbub will bring answers or excuses.
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:02 am Reply with quote
The cost-benefit analysis of Kickstarter is firmly in the negative at this point a decade in. The best use of it to me was Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. A B+ reskin of Koji Igarashi´s greatest hits. The documentary PsychOdyssey is also fairly interesting and better than Psychonauts 2 itself.
Anyone who gave more than the minimum amount to get full access to a product, a more risky pre-order, is also a rube.
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Heishi



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 1346
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:18 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I've come to feel that, in the end, you can't really make people care about something they knew nothing about before. You can only catch their interest & hope that those who are now interested already are the kind of people who would care beforehand, and that's honestly a small percentage of people.


From my own experience, sounds like the people who complain about all the more niche NES/SNES/GB/Famicom/Super Famicom titles on NSO.
And if you want to be more anime related, how people felt about Tatsunoko characters in TvC.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:24 am Reply with quote
residentgrigo wrote:
The cost-benefit analysis of Kickstarter is firmly in the negative at this point a decade in. The best use of it to me was Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. A B+ reskin of Koji Igarashi´s greatest hits. The documentary PsychOdyssey is also fairly interesting and better than Psychonauts 2 itself.
Anyone who gave more than the minimum amount to get full access to a product, a more risky pre-order, is also a rube.


My face has a very notable concern considering while I haven’t backed a lot of Kickstarters, nor do I have any real horror stories, I did invest a decent amount on a recent Kickstarter for the Marvel run of GI Joe in hardcover format. Considering that was the most successful comic book Kickstarter ever, I hope they deliver.
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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1674
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:31 am Reply with quote
anime-prime wrote:
What's going on with Dirty Pair is pretty crazy, but not nearly as crazy as the kickstarter for Grisaia Phantom Trigger The Animation. I am kinda surprised it wasn't even mentioned in the column.


I backed that and several other Frontwing projects that are just... I have no idea what's going on there. Every now and then there's an update on prioritizing one shipment over the other, and then nothing ever happens. Will something come out one day? Maybe? Who knows.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4618
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 12:21 pm Reply with quote
I'm assuming Justin's tweet was because his company was at least going to be handling the blu-rays, and it's pretty disappointing that somebody wouldn't at least contact him directly to say Crunchyroll wasn't interested in the project. Then again, keeping quiet and letting everybody forget it was a thing tends to work for big companies.

Also, I was not expecting Gene Shaft of all things.
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Jafwasw



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 12:34 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
When you look back at every anime KS that's been done in this fashion, almost every single one of them was for a re-release of something that had previously been released in English in the past. Aria, Emma, Dirty Pair, Escaflowne, Megazone 23, Bubblegum Crisis, Riding Bean, Otaku no Video, Dagger of Kamui, Gunsmith Cats, & even Skip Beat! all had some sort of prior English release, with SB! being the only one that was previously streaming-only. Mai Mai Miracle from Anime Limited was the literal only one that had an official English release done first via Kickstarter, but that was both a movie & was only five years old when Anime Limited announced its crowdfunding campaign for it, which reduced a lot of the risk, ironically enough. Even AnimEigo's Robert Woodhead himself once stated that he'd consider giving something a go via KS that hadn't previously been released in English before, but with only one more possible campaign left in him after Dagger of Kamui before retiring it doesn't seem likely that he'll actually go through with that.


Not totally true, Little Witch Academia (both versions), Santa Company, Patema Inverted (via Anime Limited) and Time of Eve movie were all first time releases. Some of the Aria release was also new in the west in the Kickstarter release.

Also Animeigo did do a couple of in house laserdisc/VHS crowdfunded subscriptions before Kickstarter was a thing, The re-release of Bubblegum Crisis on LD, Urusei Yatsura and Orange Road TV series (they had only done the OAVs and movie prior to that) come to mind

I'm hoping the Dirty Pair release will work itself out being a subscriber for that one who is outside North America there is the double concern: both the takeover making the whole thing go slow and the whole Crunchyroll Store embargo on shipping media internationally.

I suspect some of it is partially on the back of the takeover and it seems team have been let go according to some reports, and partly waiting on approvals on some of the secondary paraphernalia (Aria was delayed for a while due to a delay in the art book's final approval by Japan).

No concerned yet but watching the appropriate spaces.
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Giolon
Subscriber



Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Interesting, an update for the Dirty Pair backers just went out moments ago for the first time in 3 months. Notably, it's not attributed to any individual lending credence (IMO) to the rumors/speculation that key people on the project were laid off (or left) recently.

Here's the update for the curious:

Quote:
Thank you for your patience as we give you an update on production on the dub version of the classic 1985 series, Dirty Pair. Thanks to all of the production staff and voices who contributed to this project, and of course, you, for pledging your contribution to it.
The series is still in post-production, and, as with many productions, delays do sometimes occur.

You should be receiving updates on Dirty Pair every 2-4 weeks until the release. We hope that a new cadence and frequency of communications will help alleviate any concerns you may have. Please know that we remain fully committed to this production, especially given the passionate fanbase eagerly awaiting its release.

As part of your commitment to the Kickstarter, beginning September 3rd, we will begin shipping out available portions of your Backer Rewards while the series is being prepped for post-production, editing and shipping.

Stay tuned to this space for additional (and regular) updates soon.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Jafwasw wrote:
Not totally true, Little Witch Academia (both versions), Santa Company, Patema Inverted (via Anime Limited) and Time of Eve movie were all first time releases. Some of the Aria release was also new in the west in the Kickstarter release.


I see that you conveniently removed the beginning of my post, which makes it obvious that I'm talking about anime Kickstarters being used to give physical releases for anime that have still been licensed via traditional means, & not every single anime KS in existence, but I'll play along:

Little Witch Academia: The Enchanted Parade & Santa Company's original 2013 campaign were both brand new productions being produced through Kickstarter that just also happened to have home video releases as incentives. There were other Santa Company Kickstarter campaigns that also involved home video, yes, but they were all still done via the creators of Santa Company, so they (as well as LWA) don't really count, since I was obviously talking about licensing an anime & using Kickstarter to fund the new release, not the original owner of the IP doing it themselves. Meanwhile, the original LWA OVA was an Anime Mirai project, not a Kickstarter, not even for its BD release.

Patema Inverted's Kickstarter was in 2015, AFTER Anime Limited & GKIDS had already released it via traditional means in 2014. Therefore it matches the same concept as the titles I mentioned in my original post, i.e. re-releasing something that had an exiting fanbase.

Time of Eve is a fair enough one to bring up, my mistake, though like Mai Mai Miracle was the movie version & rather recent at the time, so it had far less risk to it. The Aria OVA was a bonus that was added in AFTER the Aria Kickstarter had succeeded as a stretch goal, so it wasn't part of the initial campaign & wasn't considered an initial selling point.

Quote:
Also Animeigo did do a couple of in house laserdisc/VHS crowdfunded subscriptions before Kickstarter was a thing, The re-release of Bubblegum Crisis on LD, Urusei Yatsura and Orange Road TV series (they had only done the OAVs and movie prior to that) come to mind


Let's not be pedantic here, because I was obviously talking about anime Kickstarters, not the entirety of crowdfunding for anime release, in general. What AnimEigo did back in the 90s isn't a 1:1 comparison for a variety of reasons, but regardless AnimEigo still has not Kickstarted a "brand new" release for anything since it started using Kickstarter. My points still stand.
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