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Kadmos1
Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13620
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
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 Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:42 am
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It does mean "another world" but does the Japanese meaning have a specific meaning for that? For example, does that apply to an anime about an anthropologist studying lost primitive tribe of people in the Amazon that has scarcely had foreign contact? I can see how the scientist might say "I feel like I am in another world learning about this tribe."
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chronium
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 293
Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:16 am
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| Kadmos1 wrote: | | It does mean "another world" but does the Japanese meaning have a specific meaning for that? For example, does that apply to an anime about an anthropologist studying lost primitive tribe of people in the Amazon that has scarcely had foreign contact? I can see how the scientist might say "I feel like I am in another world learning about this tribe." |
The full definition matters. That scientist is not transported or resurrected into that world.
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WANNFH
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1830
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:29 am
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| Kadmos1 wrote: | | It does mean "another world" but does the Japanese meaning have a specific meaning for that? For example, does that apply to an anime about an anthropologist studying lost primitive tribe of people in the Amazon that has scarcely had foreign contact? I can see how the scientist might say "I feel like I am in another world learning about this tribe." |
Well, Japanese is very convoluted with that - for example, while there is isekai (異世界) as a meaning for "another world", there is also 別の世界 (betsu no sekai) or 並行世界 (heikou sekai), which both also mean "another world" - but this wording used for the explanation of parallel worlds or multiverses in science theory or SF, opposed to the isekai, which is primarily the "fantasy" term.
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Sariachan
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1507
Location: Italy
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:38 am
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Isn't "isekai" more a theme than a genre, though?
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Thespacemaster
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 1167
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 am
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| Sariachan wrote: | | Isn't "isekai" more a theme than a genre, though? |
It started out that way but eventually it evolved into becoming such a main theme and stable for a lot of stories that it became it's own genre so much that the setting itself became integral and a key element of the story. Which is why it literally became a genre rather than just a theme anymore.
I mean when you have settings that for example showcase cooking but has the word another world in it, if you take that out it would just be a regular cooking show and i can go on but you can sort of understand how it has become a genre.
Now that Oxford has added it into the official word dictionary this pretty much cements it as a genre as a whole and no one can say otherwise and wont be just a sub category of the fantasy genre anymore.
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WANNFH
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1830
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:07 am
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| Sariachan wrote: | | Isn't "isekai" more a theme than a genre, though? |
Nah, it's pretty much a subgenre than a theme - considering it's treated as a "portal fantasy" type of plot in the West, while the themes/archetypes can be quite diverse between the works.
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FilthyCasual
Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2376
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:36 am
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| Quote: | | Do we use a dictionary to impose how words should be used, or do we use dictionaries to help us understand how words are used? |
We use dictionaries to determine what words are legal in Scrabble.
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Bertram
Joined: 29 Mar 2024
Posts: 43
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:52 pm
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| FilthyCasual wrote: | | We use dictionaries to determine what words are legal in Scrabble. |
That's probably the most objective use of a dictionary considering how subjective words are used!
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Kruszer
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7994
Location: Minnesota, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:45 pm
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I see. Truck-kun strikes again.
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MFrontier
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 13861
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:07 pm
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As ubiquitous and iconic as it has become, I'm not completely surprised.
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Xavon
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 381
Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:29 am
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| Quote: | | Ain't ain't a word, but isekai is? What's the world coming to? |
That sounds like a light novel title.
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Top Gun
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4800
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:45 pm
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Thanks, I hate it!
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L'Imperatore
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 939
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 7:24 pm
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And so, newer generations will inevitably lump Alice in Wonderland, John Carter, Wizard of Oz, and Narnia together with "In Another World with My Smartphone" in this new genre.
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Egan Loo
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1354
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 7:37 pm
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| L'Imperatore wrote: | | And so, newer generations will inevitably lump Alice in Wonderland, John Carter, Wizard of Oz, and Narnia together with "In Another World with My Smartphone" in this new genre. |
Japanese people already do:
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:異世界への転生・転移を題材とした作品
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AsleepBySunset
Joined: 07 Sep 2022
Posts: 243
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Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:25 am
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| WANNFH wrote: |
| Kadmos1 wrote: | | It does mean "another world" but does the Japanese meaning have a specific meaning for that? For example, does that apply to an anime about an anthropologist studying lost primitive tribe of people in the Amazon that has scarcely had foreign contact? I can see how the scientist might say "I feel like I am in another world learning about this tribe." |
Well, Japanese is very convoluted with that - for example, while there is isekai (異世界) as a meaning for "another world", there is also 別の世界 ( betsu no sekai) or 並行世界 ( heikou sekai), which both also mean "another world" - but this wording used for the explanation of parallel worlds or multiverses in science theory or SF, opposed to the isekai, which is primarily the "fantasy" term. |
"Betsu no" means different, for example betsu no hitsugi means "a different sheep". Heikou means "parralel". You can't just translate stuff badly and then go "oh they mean the same thing".
| Quote: | | And so, newer generations will inevitably lump Alice in Wonderland, John Carter, Wizard of Oz, and Narnia together with "In Another World with My Smartphone" in this new genre. |
No. We distinguish the portal fantasy genre (alice in wonderland, etc) from the isekai genre by using the word isekai instead of portal fantasy to describe isekai story's like My Smartphone, and using the word portal fantasy to describe portal fantasy stories like Narnia. Similar to how we distinguish magical realism from fantasy by saying sentences "I really like mexican magical realism", or "I really like western fantasy stories like Lord of The Rings".
There are a lot of genres and mediums in the world many of which are very specific, some genres have codified rules to follow like a limerick poems. We have genres like moral plays, sturm and drag, the haiku (a genre of poem), chamberfolk, drumstep, rocksteady and we are perfectly capable of distinguishing between them. We use the word isekai to refer to a specific style of work, popularised in japan on amatuer web novel websites, with its own trademarks seperate from portal fantasy
And to respond to the other poster, we don't have to use the word isekai like the japanese people do, the same way I don't read a japanese dictionary if I want to use the word "anime" in a sentence. When words get loaned over there's a specific process where a words meaning changes to become more specific because you already have a word for the general thing, we already have a word for cartoons so when anime is loaned into english it means "japanese cartoons", ditto for isekai.
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