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Revisiting G no Reconguista, And Looking Back On 'Happy Tomino'




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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3450
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Why is it, then, that shows like Turn A, Overman King Gainer, and Gundam ZZ have been widely enjoyed while G-Reco remained the proverbial black sheep of the movement?


?? Turn A is one of the least popular stand alone gundam entry, king gainer is virtually unknown even in mech circle and ZZ is probably the least liked UC entry.

The idea that the show is supposed to make no sense to show the foolishness of war is a good figleaf excuse, but it fall apart upon even the smallest amount scrutiny. Nothing makes sense in the show, regardless of if it's about war/military or not. For this idea to work, you'd need every character to behave like functional, realistic human up until war get involved, at which point everyone would act in a non sense fashion, that way you'd get a strong contrast between the two context. But, as is, it's just non sense throughout, so the non sense of war gets lost in the general non sense.

Also no idea what he has against space elevator, solar panel work much better in space and the environmental impact of covering large portion of the earth in solar panel is non negligible. If space elevator could work (a massive could) they'd be a really great idea.
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Amuro1X



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 202
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Great article. G Reco is absurd because war is absurd. That's really the best way to put it.

To the point that people expect conflict in Gundam to be backed up by lofty philosophical viewpoints, you only need to go to the original to see that it was never supposed to be the case. For example, the One Year War was fought between the Earth Federation and Zeon. Zeon had some lofty rhetoric about Newtypes and Spacenoid independence, but that all falls apart when you realize it was all just an excuse for a fascist leader to take control. Zeon immediately lost its nobility when it began the war by gassing their fellow space colonists and dropped colonies on the planet. The Federation may come off as the good guys because they're fighting a faction that is so clearly evil, but their just the powers that be fighting to retain control.

G-Reco made a lot more sense to me upon viewing those first two comp films and I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest now. My main theory on why First Gundam is so easy to parse while G-Reco is impenetrable by comparison is that First Gundam's conflict was basically WWII in space through the eyes of a group of civilians dragged into the conflict who go on a globe spanning "road trip." G-Reco is decidedly more Sci-fi with multiple sides that aren't explicitly spelled out at the beginning as you mentioned.
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Fireminer



Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:39 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

?? Turn A is one of the least popular stand alone gundam entry, king gainer is virtually unknown even in mech circle and ZZ is probably the least liked UC entry.


Have you seen Narrative? ZZ is definitely not the least liked UC entry.

And Overman King Gainer is definitely more popular among mech fans than you think. The problem with it is that like many other shows, more people claim to have watched it than actually watching it.

meiam wrote:

The idea that the show is supposed to make no sense to show the foolishness of war is a good figleaf excuse, but it fall apart upon even the smallest amount scrutiny. Nothing makes sense in the show, regardless of if it's about war/military or not. For this idea to work, you'd need every character to behave like functional, realistic human up until war get involved, at which point everyone would act in a non sense fashion, that way you'd get a strong contrast between the two context. But, as is, it's just non sense throughout, so the non sense of war gets lost in the general non sense.

Also no idea what he has against space elevator, solar panel work much better in space and the environmental impact of covering large portion of the earth in solar panel is non negligible. If space elevator could work (a massive could) they'd be a really great idea.


Using absurdity in an anti-war message is not a new thing at all, for example, many of Picasso's words. Also, you are presuming that war is the catalyst which bring out the nonsensical in men. Have you considered that war is started and ran by nonsensical men? I recently read about the backgrounds of a few historical figures involved in the Charge of the Light Brigade and Italia's war efforts in the WWI (you should look up Luigi Cardona), and these people would be considered comically stupid, greedy, and bloodthirsty even if the wars hadn't happened.

As for space elevator, I think Tomino's idea about it is formed from two parts: Whether any nation or international organization be able to embark on such a gigantic project without making a mess; and if they can, then how will geopolitical power be distributed in the world afterward. 00 made a similar point in the background--the construction of the space elevators were the cause of many conflicts, and after they had been completed, the elevators did not lead to a fairer world and instead acted as another leverage of power to the superpowers.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3450
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:00 pm Reply with quote
Fireminer wrote:


Have you seen Narrative? ZZ is definitely not the least liked UC entry.

And Overman King Gainer is definitely more popular among mech fans than you think. The problem with it is that like many other shows, more people claim to have watched it than actually watching it.

I was talking more about TV show rather than movie, possibly narrative is least liked than ZZ? Anyway, point stand, nobody really seem to like "happy Tomino", at least nowhere near as much as his other work. Saying "why is G-reco an exception from his other similar work" doesn't work, since it not being liked is perfectly in line.

I actually tried looking for mech show on myanimelist and ANN encyclopedia that had lower number of votes/popularity from around the same airing time. I barely found any. Even stuff like Flag or Kannazuki are better remembered. The only one I found was blue gender, and blue gender was total crap.

Fireminer wrote:

Using absurdity in an anti-war message is not a new thing at all, for example, many of Picasso's words. Also, you are presuming that war is the catalyst which bring out the nonsensical in men. Have you considered that war is started and ran by nonsensical men? I recently read about the backgrounds of a few historical figures involved in the Charge of the Light Brigade and Italia's war efforts in the WWI (you should look up Luigi Cardona), and these people would be considered comically stupid, greedy, and bloodthirsty even if the wars hadn't happened.

As for space elevator, I think Tomino's idea about it is formed from two parts: Whether any nation or international organization be able to embark on such a gigantic project without making a mess; and if they can, then how will geopolitical power be distributed in the world afterward. 00 made a similar point in the background--the construction of the space elevators were the cause of many conflicts, and after they had been completed, the elevators did not lead to a fairer world and instead acted as another leverage of power to the superpowers.


Again, everyone was nonsensical in the show, whether they ran the war or not. And why bring up the fact that some people would be comically stupid even outside war? That just undermine the idea that the show is about showing how war make people act comically stupid.

As for space elevator, well obviously they built it and didn't make a mess, so that's clearly not his point. As far as geopolitics, no reason for it to change geopolitics. If other people don't want to use the space elevator, they don't have to. A space elevator isn't going to prevent people from building they're own solar panel on earth, like Aida said (or is this another case of everyone in the show is acting like an idiot to show the foolishness of war?) nor does it stop them from making their own space elevator, like 00 did.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 5180
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:07 pm Reply with quote
I didn't hate G Recon as much as other people did but I think a simpler argument for why everyone acts the way they do in this show is Tomino was trying to make humor for a kid's show but he's out of touch with what modern kids would think is funny.
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BlueAlf



Joined: 02 Jan 2017
Posts: 1549
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:01 pm Reply with quote
I think this is a great article.

From what I've seen, 'Happy Tomino' series have a tendency to not stand out much by the time when they first aired, but almost always end up being really beloved by older fans.

G-Reco was the one exception for that. I assumed it was because of production and scheduling issues since it seems they were aiming for a four-cour series at the beginning. But then again, it had an underlying communication problem which IMO would have been easily solved if only they had some minutes of exposition like what they did in the original Gundam.

So far, I've
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Fireminer



Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:13 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

I actually tried looking for mech show on myanimelist and ANN encyclopedia that had lower number of votes/popularity from around the same airing time. I barely found any. Even stuff like Flag or Kannazuki are better remembered. The only one I found was blue gender, and blue gender was total crap.


Of course Flag and Kannazuki are better remembered because they targeted demographics outside of the usual mecha fans. I mean, have you seen how much Yuri fans put Kannazuki on the pedestal? As for Flag, there hasn't anything quite like it, especially for the military otaku.

meiam wrote:

Again, everyone was nonsensical in the show, whether they ran the war or not. And why bring up the fact that some people would be comically stupid even outside war? That just undermine the idea that the show is about showing how war make people act comically stupid.


Let look at this from two perspectives:

- The protagonists: Here are a bunch of teenagers and young adults who are incredibly immature and idiosyncratic. They aren't hero material at all, and they are definitely not up to the task at hands. And yet they are the only people doing the good thing. It's a tragedy that all the adults aren't there to shoulder this duty that shouldn't have gone to these kids in the first place

- The antagonists: You have the adults pushing for war to satisfy their selfish needs and to realize their wacky visions of the future. They are also stupid, selfish, greedy, paranoia, incompetence, etc. They are already wrong in the heads before the war begins, but the war give the circumstances to their weirdness to manifest in the most destructive way possible

I think that you're wrong to think these people should be well-adjusted, and the war as an external factor that make them weird. Tomino's characters at the beginning of their storyline are always weird and deeply flawed. War instead weaponizes these flaws and wackiness, and they and the people around them suffered because of this. If you don't want these tragedies to happen in real life, then you better make sure war doesn't occur to create the circumstances for them to happen.

meiam wrote:

As for space elevator, well obviously they built it and didn't make a mess, so that's clearly not his point. As far as geopolitics, no reason for it to change geopolitics. If other people don't want to use the space elevator, they don't have to. A space elevator isn't going to prevent people from building they're own solar panel on earth, like Aida said (or is this another case of everyone in the show is acting like an idiot to show the foolishness of war?) nor does it stop them from making their own space elevator, like 00 did.


Didn't it say somewhere in the show that there were wars caused by the space elevator in the past, which also involved the Kuntala being brutalized? Also, the Capital actively used propaganda and violent to prevent anyone else from being energy-independent from them. And, Towasanga had an interest in keeping Earth under their thumb through the distribution of Photon Batteries. This is the status quo that prevents anyone to do anything to improve the situation.


Last edited by Fireminer on Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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VerQuality



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 138
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:45 pm Reply with quote
I really appreciate this article. The first time I watched G-Reco, I got 3 episodes in, then dropped it. When I went back, I marathoned the thing - I didn't mean to, I just couldn't stop watching. I've come to really appreciate Tomino's style of storytelling, even though it's often hard to articulate exactly why.
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LinkTSwordmaster



Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 537
Location: PA / USA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:19 am Reply with quote
VerQuality wrote:
I really appreciate this article. The first time I watched G-Reco, I got 3 episodes in, then dropped it. When I went back, I marathoned the thing....


I'm in a similar spot, I got a few episodes in, couldn't make any sense of it, then dropped it - even as much of a Gundam nut as I am. I'd be relatively willing to go back and watch the compilation stuff, especially with the perspective the article is offering, so as to ground some of my expectations & contextualise some of the more obtuse parts of the character motivations (or lack of) that are flying around.

Even still, if you wait with excitement all week to sit down with your friends and play a narrative-focused D&D game, only to have your dungeonmaster weave for you a passive-aggressive mockery of a game that amounts to the moral of the story being "don't wipe your damned muddy shoes on my carpet!" ....I think any reasonable person would be let down, feeling that their time was wasted on such an overall pointless outcome.

That's not to say that a show wallowing in absurdity cant be amusing or contain some sort of artistic message, it's just that.... animation/film is linear media, and the audience is at the mercy of whatever the writer+director tells them (subtly or otherwise). When given the choice between a story about a bunch of orphans on Mars who pilot Gundams that ruin their bodies-yet-provide life support or a story about a boy that poops in his Gundam....

It's Gundam, so I want to like it anyways. I just don't think I'll be coming back to G-Reco 20 years from now like I did Char's Counterattack, mining meaning from the characters and their experiences with newer/matured perspective.
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager


Joined: 16 Sep 2021
Posts: 523
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:15 am Reply with quote
Cleaned up and deleted a few posts for the following reasons:

1. Soapboxing
2. Inflammatory posts in order to negatively provoke users

There was a post or two that were acceptable but without the whole discussion, it may make no sense. This also reduces the chance of being brought up again.
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