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SilverTalon01
Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2419
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:18 pm
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I really don't get how an adult could watch it and come to that conclusion. I could easily see how a child or young teen could watch it and miss the deeper message due to being caught up with the 'cool fights,' but I'm not sure he is really talking about kids misinterpreting it.
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levonr
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 821
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:21 pm
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What in the hell, I've been a fan of Gundam for a long time and I don't recall ever hearing anyone think it had a pro-war message.
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veemonjosh
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 317
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:24 pm
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Yeah, I've seen most of the Universal Century series and they've never struck me as "pro-war", even for a single moment. Especially not the original.
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DRosencraft
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 676
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:31 pm
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It's easy to see Gundam as a pro war series, particularly if you're not a regular fan of the series or someone deeply immersed in it. Ostensibly the stories are about ending the conflict du jour, but usually the only answer they present is slugging it out until one side is defeated. Every series ends with one final big fight, and then some quick epilogue-esque wrap-up about how some peace agreement is signed or whatnot.
The deaths and devastation to non-main characters or other places tend to get passing attention in favor of the next big robot fight. When there are characters that try to drive an anti-war stance, they usually end up pushed to the side or the background in the story, or derided by fans for being "weak" or a Jesus wannabe or Mary Sue.
I'm not blaming the director here or anything, but their own efforts to present a non-war focused viewpoint have not exactly been robust over the years. And simply saying "war is bad" while portraying hero characters continuously immersed in war and trying their best to kill any enemy the come across is not sufficient to present what you may want to claim as an anti-war footing.
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Themaster20000
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 872
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:59 pm
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DRosencraft wrote: | It's easy to see Gundam as a pro war series, particularly if you're not a regular fan of the series or someone deeply immersed in it. Ostensibly the stories are about ending the conflict du jour, but usually the only answer they present is slugging it out until one side is defeated. Every series ends with one final big fight, and then some quick epilogue-esque wrap-up about how some peace agreement is signed or whatnot.
The deaths and devastation to non-main characters or other places tend to get passing attention in favor of the next big robot fight. When there are characters that try to drive an anti-war stance, they usually end up pushed to the side or the background in the story, or derided by fans for being "weak" or a Jesus wannabe or Mary Sue.
I'm not blaming the director here or anything, but their own efforts to present a non-war focused viewpoint have not exactly been robust over the years. And simply saying "war is bad" while portraying hero characters continuously immersed in war and trying their best to kill any enemy the come across is not sufficient to present what you may want to claim as an anti-war footing. |
That's been my issue with some of the series. If you gonna show how terrible war is,then you should probably make your fights really show how pointless it is(similar to something like Paths of Glory or All Quiet on the Western Front),instead of making your fights these exciting set pieces made just to fill the action quota for an episode.
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penguintruth
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8503
Location: Penguinopolis
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:00 pm
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Well, it is an amusing contradiction that Gundam has anti-war messages at the same time being ostensibly a war toy advertisement. Mobile suits are war machines. The franchise is reliant on fans buying models of these colorful, interesting war machines that kill people.
Just amusing, is all. I love Gundam.
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Agent355
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:24 pm
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"Man with Complex, Nuanced View of War Upset that Cartoon Doesn't Reflect his Exact Opinion"
Could be an Onion article. Doesn't sound like he's a total pacifist, and that's fine, but it's hard to express complex nuances in fiction without some misinterpretation. I caught Full Metal Jacket on TV recently and I can't believe some people see it as a pro-war movie. I mean, I can believe it, completely, because people see what they want to see and the artists' intent means nothing to them. I've always thought that artists intentions were crucial to understanding any work of fiction.
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LuckyAstei
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 228
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:31 pm
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I don't know but I always got the vibe from UC Gundam as War is Hell a very jaded and accurate view on war itself.
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Lord Geo
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2703
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:45 pm
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Agent355 wrote: | I've always thought that artists intentions were crucial to understanding any work of fiction. |
I've read before that "Death of the Author", i.e. the creator's intentions & personal feelings don't mean anything in comparison to the person experiencing the work, has been slowly getting more & more support in the past decade or so. I don't know how true that is, but I do think that DotA is something people sometimes rely on to help validate their own opinions, even if it isn't exactly the most sound opinions.
Personally, I'm also all for taking the creator's intentions & beliefs when understanding fiction. As for Gundam being misinterpreted as "Pro-War", I guess it really depends on the series, though the franchise's nature as being made to advertise toys & model kits does kind of require said message to be blurred.
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H. Guderian
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1255
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:02 pm
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I think its both. I mean, I've watched some real good movies like Tae Guk Ki, which is about the Korean War. Its a really well made movie but utterly depressing for how shitty war is.
Gundam itself is part of the Mecha genre, where getting a robot let's you have a say in events much larger than yourself, in situations that most people won't get into. War is Hell, but also you -can- make a difference. No one roots for Zeon (bad guys) because they are Evil. They root for them sometimes because some of their grievances are justified. How many times are good people sent to war by bad people in power? Even if you're in an unjust war, manipulated and abused by both powers - You can still protect those within arm's reach. And sometimes...not.
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KH91
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 6176
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:03 pm
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Never thought about that when watching Gundam even as a kid.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:25 pm
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Quote: | His final message addresses Japanese youth participating protests against the recent security bill, which will allow the reinterpretation of Japan's Peace Constitution as well as the military aid of foreign countries in wartime. While he congratulates them on protesting peacefully, he says, "It's a shame if they are caught up in a single-minded pursuit of ideas such as 'protect (war-renouncing) Article 9 (of the Constitution)' and 'preserve (Japan as) a peaceful country.' For example, I hope they think for themselves from now on about how we deal with things like the Islamic State extremist group." |
Seems pretty Pro-War to me. His message might be more nuanced than "War is Good", but I'd say that it was still ultimately pro-war. As others have said, the Gundams themselves are war machines.
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skaly
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 148
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:19 pm
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Among the few Gundam shows I've seen, the two Gundam SEED shows seemed the most anti-war. Or rather anti-killing.
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:43 pm
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I don't see any messages in gundam. It's just a fun fightone show.
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FenixFiesta
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:47 pm
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It is the "patriotism fervor" that bleeds out for most interpretations of Gundam that seems to read out as Pro-War.
The message can't really be changed as the cows have left the barn with the fandom endlessly reinterpreting things such as painting Zeon soldiers in a significantly more sympathetic light and making them "not so different" from those are enlisted/drafted in the real world.
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