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Emptyone
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:23 am
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i was wondering if this type of person would be considered a otaku. a person who watches/has ALOT of anime, but doesn't go to anime conventions or have any anime toys or any manga or any hentai or does cosplay. but knows alot about animes. what would that person be considered as? just having anime as a hobby? or something else?
[EDIT: Adjusted your topic to not be so vague. -TK]
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marie-antoinette
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:51 am
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The definition of an "otaku," at least outside of Japan, is rather subjective. Some people might consider such a person an otaku, while others would not.
There was a poll conducted on the site not too long ago about what the term meant to the people who frequent the site. You can see the results here: animenewsnetwork.com/poll.php?id=95
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Wolverine Princess
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1100
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:02 pm
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Check out this article about the history of the word "otaku". I thought it was very fascinating.
Cruising the Anime City: An Otaku Guide to Neo Tokyo (authors: Patrick Macias and Tomohiro Machiyama) wrote: | In 1989, I wrote a book called Otaku no Hon (The Book of Otaku) that helped popularize the word "otaku" in Japan for the first time. The book was a collection of essays about people deeply into anime, dojinshi (fan-made comics), Bishojo ("Beautiful Girl") figures, yaoi (male-male loce), computers, video games, pro-wrestling, and B-class idol singers. It also included analysis and discussion from scholars about these new kinds of cultures.
Otaku no Hon became a bestseller. Inspired by it, Toshio Okada, producer of the 1988 seminal anime Gunbuster, made another anime in 1992 calls Otaku no Video that further explored the otaku phenomenon.
Today, the word "otaku" is listed in Japanese dictionaries and is being used around the world among anime fans. But before Otaku no Hon was published the term was known only among one's fellow hard-core otaku.
But it was actually six years before my book came out that the word "otaku" was born. In June 1983, an essayist named Akio Nakamori wrote a short column titled "Otaku no Kenkyu" (A Study of Otaku) for the erotic manga magazine Manga Brikko.
Nakamori studied a particular kind of driven personality: people who line up in front of theaters all night before the opening of an anime film, people trying to take photos of rarely seen trains only to nearly get run over by them, kids with Coke-bottle glasses who hang around computer stores, men who go to Idol autograph sessions early in the morning to secure a good seat in the front, and audiophiles who are extremely uptight about sound quality. these kinds of people were often called maniacs, enthusiastic fans, or (in Japanese) nekura, but none of these terms really hit the target.
People needed a new word to integrate these kinds of people into a broader social phenomenon. In the absence of any better ideas, commentators seized upon the word "otaku."
Observers had noted how fans at anime conventions or get-togethers would use the word "otaku" to address each other. When translated into English, "otaku" simply means "you." But whereas in English there is only the all-purpose "you" ("thee" is heard only in sermons), Japan has many "you" equivalents. Which one is used depends on social context, rank, mood, ect. Among all the "you's" in Japan, "otaku" is formal and impersonal. Taku means "house", and when combined with the honorific prefix "o" - it literally means "your house," "your side," or "your family." For instance, "you" becomes "otaku" at afternoon tea parties where middle-class housewives regard each other not as individuals but as members of a larger family or lineage. Example: "So, how is your otaku doing?" It helps make the conversation flow easier without the need for personal information.
"Otaku" is a kind of dispassionate and aloof way of referring to another person to his or her face. No wonder Nakamori wrote: "Isn't it creepy to see junior high school kids calling each other 'otaku' at comic and anime conventions?"
How did anime fans begin to use a word that came from housewives? One possible reason is that they were not comfortable with the alternative "you": omae. Traditionally, male friends use the first-person ore and the second-person omae. But omae can sound a bit rough to Japanese ears and is properly used only in close relationships and those at the same or lower rank. It's actually more like "my nigga" than "my buddy." A meek anime fan, reluctant to use such overpowering masculine words, finds the housewife word "otaku" more suited to his and his colleagues’ sensibility.
Also, just as housewives will relate to others only as representatives of a family, and not as individuals, anime fans don't want to cross over into each other's personal lives. Information about common interests and hobbies should be the only things exchanged when talking to each other. By calling each other "otaku," personal feelings are off the table; in the fantasy world of anime, this is a sure route to simple communication.
The first recorded usage of "otaku" in the mass media actually came before Akio Nakamori's observations. It popped up in the 1982-83 anime series Super Dimensional Fortress Marcoss (shown in the USA as Robotech). The fighter-pilot protagonist Hikaru Ichijoe frequently uses "otaku" when addressing others. It seems that the Macross staff, including the scriptwriters, were anime fans themselves and had inadvertently used their own vernacular.
However, because the magazine in which Akio Nakamori had defined the word "otaku" was a little-known porno publication, news about the new usage of the word did not spread far.
Much as I'd like to think that it was my book, Otaku no Hon, that made the word a sensation in 1989, the truth is different. Tsutomu Miyazaki, a man who kidnapped, raped, and murdered three little girls, was arrested in 1989. Miyazaki was a walking worst-case scenario otaku. With messy long hair, a pale face, and geeky glasses, he was twenty-seven years old, unemployed, and living with his parents. His room was full of anime videos and Lolicon (Lolita Complex) manga. Because the case was so sensational, amny Japanese people began to wonder what kind of lifestyle had created such a monster.
Otaku no Hon had just some out. People connected the dots and came to the conclusion that otaku were dangerous perverts. Otaku suddenly became a social problem. Like Communists or terrorists, the vilified otaku had somehow managed to infiltrate the whole of Japanese society. A mother, worried about her son who was over twenty and without a girlfriend, fainted when she found an erotic manga in his room that showed anime characters being violated. "Otaku bashing" became a new witch hunt.
Otaku even began to despise their own kind. Hard-core otaku who could never have normal lives were called "Itai" (The Painful), and fellow otaku condemned them. Anime otaku were ashamed to be associated with the word "otaku" and stopped using it to address or refer to each other.
The late '80's in Japan was the peak of the Bubble Economy. The ideal man was supposed to be working in finance or for an advertising agency, wearing an Italian double-breasted suit, driving a BMW, exercising at a gym, and enjoying nightlife at up-scale discos. On the dark side of this bright an lively Japan were the otaku. But the Bubble Economy in Japan began to burst in 1989, ending the period of high economic growth after World War II and beginning a deep recession that lingers to this day.
As other industries grew sluggish, only the otaku market kept booming, Anime, manga, and video games became the new favored exports of Japan. Marketers and economists started to research otaku consumers' tendencies and preferences. Academics started researching the psychology of otaku, now considered a model of human beings in a new post-modern society.
Meanwhile Toshio Okada (remember him?) crossed over from being an anime creator to a social critic. He christened himself the "Ota-King" and started to explain otaku culture in simple words to economists and academics. In a reversion of the events of 1989, otaku were acknowledged as a subculture that Japan could be proud of and learn from.
After all, it was the otaku who, through their purchasing power, supported technological advances in Japan, especially with the consumer electronics and computers they used to store, reproduce, and view their favored products, The idea that otaku somehow hold the key to ending the recession had penetrated both the corporate world and the highest levels of the government.
And one can now say, "I've a little bit of otaku in me" without feeling ashamed. The word "otaku" has acquired positive connotation, suggesting that a person has his or her own sense of values, is not a snob, has a child's purity and passion, and possesses an uncompromising opinion on his own likes and dislikes. A person minus otaku leanings is assumed to be without uniqueness, originality, or creativity.
A change has happened to the meaning of "otaku" similar to what happened with the once-insulting word "queer." Of course, the negative meaning of "otaku" is still widely used. "Ota," a shortened version of "otaku," is used to ridicule someone or make fun of oneself. An otaku of the Idol Group Morning Musume, for example, is a "Mo-ota"; an otaku of Gundam is a "Gun-ota." What kind of ota are you? |
Now, I know that that's a really long article and some of you may think, "Eh, I'm just going to skip this post", but it's actually very interesting and shed a lot of light on the subject I hadn't considered before.
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selenta
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1774
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:26 pm
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Wolverine Princess wrote: | Check out this article about the history of the word "otaku". I thought it was very fascinating. |
Kudos, that was pretty interesting.
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aya_honda
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Around here
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:28 pm
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Wolverine Princess wrote:
Quote: | Now, I know that that's a really long article and some of you may think, "Eh, I'm just going to skip this post", but it's actually very interesting and shed a lot of light on the subject I hadn't considered before. |
Hey, it's true: a very long article but a very interesting one and very explanatory at the same time. Thanks. I was also wondering about this subject and this article helped me in understanding better the word otaku.
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omar235
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 1572
Location: Florida, Jacksonvile
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:44 pm
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I have to say it was a good read...especially this part which I didn't know happened....no relation I presume
Quote: | Much as I'd like to think that it was my book, Otaku no Hon, that made the word a sensation in 1989, the truth is different. Tsutomu Miyazaki, a man who kidnapped, raped, and murdered three little girls, was arrested in 1989. Miyazaki was a walking worst-case scenario otaku. With messy long hair, a pale face, and geeky glasses, he was twenty-seven years old, unemployed, and living with his parents. His room was full of anime videos and Lolicon (Lolita Complex) manga. Because the case was so sensational, amny Japanese people began to wonder what kind of lifestyle had created such a monster. |
All in all this article was interesting and definetly shed light on the word otaku for me. Thanks Wolverine Princess for the post.
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Azathrael
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:38 pm
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If you need a good example of an otaku (Japanese definition), just watch Densha Otoko (the TV series, not the movie). Though I'd say a "real" otaku is much worse than that.
Not sure if I can put Youtube links, but there were Japanese TV show clips about some man in his 30's who'd spend most (and by most I mean like 80-90%) of his paycheck on Berry Koubou merchandise... He actually got to talk to his favorite Berry Koubou member through that show too. Now that's an otaku.
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:59 pm
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Yeah, we've got plenty of otakus over here, FOOTBALL fans! Plus the gamers that will go to the Evolution World Gaming championships, people who collect cards, the list is endless. I consider myself an otaku on the fact that I have a whole bunch of manga, will spend my spare time watching anime (not even my spare time to add on), and am here at ANN 3 times a day. That's dedication on my part.
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PantsGoblin
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Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2969
Location: L.A.
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:25 am
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Azathrael wrote: | If you need a good example of an otaku (Japanese definition), just watch Densha Otoko (the TV series, not the movie). Though I'd say a "real" otaku is much worse than that. |
Well, I'm sure there are some crazy ones out there, but I wouldn't really say they're much worse than that. From what I've experienced, Densha Otoko exaggerated it a bit for humor purposes. But for the most part, it is correct, at least for the "hard-core" ones. The craziest ones I've seen were at a seiyuu (Ryoko Shintani) CD hand out. Most of them actually looked like normal people though, but there were those few that looked, um, rather "out there". They seemed extemely nice, but shy. Although, they were probably even more shy of me, being a foreigner, so I don't know if I really got the whole experience.
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aya_honda
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Around here
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:28 am
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fighterholic wrote:
Quote: | I consider myself an otaku on the fact that I have a whole bunch of manga, will spend my spare time watching anime (not even my spare time to add on), and am here at ANN 3 times a day. That's dedication on my part. |
I already do that and plus the fact that I carry a volume of manga with me anywhere I go (one never knows when one has to stay in line for something or there's a traffic jam etc) and I constantly purchase anime, when I'm not watching them. Damn, it's a hard life!
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Azathrael
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:27 am
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PantsGoblin wrote: |
Well, I'm sure there are some crazy ones out there, but I wouldn't really say they're much worse than that. From what I've experienced, Densha Otoko exaggerated it a bit for humor purposes. But for the most part, it is correct, at least for the "hard-core" ones. The craziest ones I've seen were at a seiyuu (Ryoko Shintani) CD hand out. Most of them actually looked like normal people though, but there were those few that looked, um, rather "out there". They seemed extemely nice, but shy. Although, they were probably even more shy of me, being a foreigner, so I don't know if I really got the whole experience. |
Actually if you check the Youtube clips I mentioned in my previous post, that's one example of "worse than Densha Otoko".
And it's a fact that the TV series intentionally exagerrated the character - the real character from 2ch was actually just your average guy who was a fan or a maniac, not a real otaku. The movie actually portrays a more realistic/accurate representation of the main character.
I've never considered otaku to be some kind of "new species". You're completely misunderstanding me if I think every single one of them is beyond "normal people". I'm simply stating that there are otaku that are much worse than portrayed in Densha Otoko, but that the character is a good example of one nevertheless. Because he's already at a completely different level than the average self-claimed American otaku's level.
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The Seventh Son
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Where your missing socks end up.
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:31 pm
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the term otaku can apply to any type of fandom anywhere, but i wouldnt use the term publicly.
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Emptyone
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:03 pm
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I read the article and it was interesting. but I'm still wondering about the question i asked earlier. and want to know if any of you think that just watching alot of anime would make someone a otaku? or would it be just a hobby?
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ManOfRust
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1935
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:56 pm
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Emptyone wrote: | I read the article and it was interesting. but I'm still wondering about the question i asked earlier. and want to know if any of you think that just watching alot of anime would make someone a otaku? or would it be just a hobby? |
Naaah. It just means you like anime as a form of entertainment. Now reading and posting to an anime forum....
Seriously, though, who cares if other people want to paste some label on you? As intersting as the article is, it just goes to show that trying to slap a definition on a whole group of people is an inherently problematic venture. Watching lots of anime suggests you are an anime fan, but I don't think it can in and of itself "make" you into anything.
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SharinganEyes92
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 816
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:29 pm
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fighterholic wrote: | Yeah, we've got plenty of otakus over here, FOOTBALL fans! Plus the gamers that will go to the Evolution World Gaming championships, people who collect cards, the list is endless. I consider myself an otaku on the fact that I have a whole bunch of manga, will spend my spare time watching anime (not even my spare time to add on), and am here at ANN 3 times a day. That's dedication on my part. |
Count me as one of those Football Otakus. NFL Sunday Ticket with almost every game in HD and Jets' Season Tickets... how could I not be a football otaku?
I wouldn't consider myself an anime/manga otaku, though. I really don't have much time at all to watch or read as much as I like to (still adjusting to the High School life; not in Middle School anymore ). I'd consider myself a mild ANN otaku though. I spend alot of time here browsing the forums while I'm doing homework or loading resource pages for homework, though I still don't get alot of time to post. Sure, you could say that I should use that extra time to watch anime, but as I said, I spend alot of time doing other things while browsing and occasionally typing up posts here on ANN (as I'm doing now... *cough* playing Internet go *cough*).
Nice article, though, Wolverine Princess. It was very informative. I woulda' just skipped it over (in fact, I did, but I went back and read it after seeing what you said).
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