Forum - View topicCode Geass: Am I the only one who hates Lancelot?
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calphite2
Posts: 14 |
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*I have only watched up to episode 18*
I don't mean in the sense that I hate the fact that the black knights have an opponent. I hate it because it seemingly becomes an instant finish to every fight in the anime thus far. Every time it is deployed i find myself skipping the action scene's because the outcome is obvious. The only one that I could not predict was when C2 Intervened the first time. This is causing me to loose interest in the show because the action scene's are becoming tension-less. This ticked me off to such an extent that I did a google search to see if he died at any point in the series. (I'm not invested in the story enough to care about the spoiler.) I can't even worry when he attacks lelouch because, oh I don't know, HIS NAME IS IN THE GOD DAMN TITLE OF THE SHOW. Basically, does this guy EVER get a half decent opponent? Or am I going to have to watch the apparently much better R2? |
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EricDent
 Posts: 997 Location: Georgetown, TX |
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It's been a while since I watched it, but IIRC you are kinda out of luck for a Lancelot opponent until R2.
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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As a huge mecha fan I can safely say that the mecha battles in Code Geass suck. For most of the series the only mecha that can compete with the Lancelot is the Gurren, and who wins that battle depends on who go the final powerup. They get even worse with R2 when by the second half, all of the battles except between Gurren and Lancelot last minutes at the most, several battles between "aces" last literally seconds.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Ever heard of the spoiler[Guren Mk II? You know, the one that matches the Lancelot in episode eleven? Because that thing is a beast, and Kallen is basically as good a pilot as Suzaku. If it wasn't for the cliff-side giving way Suzaku might have lost that fight. I believe episode thirteen also features a battle between them, although I'm too lazy to check.] The show went through a lot of trouble to portray spoiler[Kallen and the Guren as the only real rival to Suzaku and the Lancelot. Well, there's Todou, a guy who is probably the most skilled pilot in both seasons, but he was never in a state-of-the-art knightmare frame. Even so, in episode seventeen he still slices open the Lancelot's cockpit.] Jesus man, what more do you want? You want a "half decent opponent"? Start by opening your eyes. Sorry to say but you do come across as trolling. I mean, you've made such a drama out of it while completely ignoring the evidence right there in front of you. Last edited by dtm42 on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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calphite2
Posts: 14 |
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Sliced open the cockpit in 17 you say? As I said in my post, I have started to skip the action scene's because Lancelot never loses. All I know is that I skipped it, and everyone was running away from lancelot and the approaching Brittania forces. New thought: Why does no one ever shoot the guy with a high powered gun from far away? If it is giving them so much trouble I'm sure Kyoto could scrounge one up. I know after 17 lelouch knows its his buddy, but before that I wonder why they never tried that. |
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the Rancorous
 Posts: 2248 Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys |
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Because the Lancelot is way too fast, agile, and responsive for a sniper to get a semi-decent shot? It only gets out into the open when it's in combat, and when it's in combat it pretty much never stops moving. A single sniper pulling that off? Probably a one-in-a-million chance. A plan like that would be too shoddy for Lelouche to even consider. Had you not skipped the battle in ep 17, you would have seen that spoiler[the Lancelot was pretty much defeated, and was really only spared because that was when Lelouche saw that the pilot was Suzaku and hesitated too long to give the order.] And about the whole "Lancelot never loses," that's not very accurate, in many of the battles nobody wins, including Suzaku. Some others, that involve the Lancelot, while the Lancelot may not get pummeled, the rebels still achieve their goals. The Lancelot is an above the top of the line weapon; of course the lower models the rebels have wouldn't be able to hold up against it. Having said that, Lelouche does come up with ways to get around that disadvantage using what they have, which is what I really like about that series. |
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calphite2
Posts: 14 |
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Ahhh okay, that makes sense. Thanks. On the topic of the sniper rifle there is multiple points in the series where during fights, they to yell their ideologies at one another. Even if these generally don't last very long, I think it would be adequate time for someone to line up a shit. Regardless, they never try it anyway so whatever. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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And, as another huge mecha fan, I can also safely disagree with Charred Knight here. Don't you just love the lack of uniformity in this world? 
All joking aside, it does seem necessary to provide a different way to look at the situation here, taking into consideration that this discussion is mostly about the original series. Code Geass, unlike Gundam, is not based on the protagonist either being a great mecha pilot or having the most powerful robot on his side. Apparently that is what some people consider as a requirement for having "great mecha battles" but, in all honesty, I don't think so. In a straight fight, the odds are usually supposed to be against Lelouch and the Black Knights. In fact...for the most part, the technological gap is also not in their favor. What makes that worth watching, in my opinion, is how the smaller scale of the battles, the specific circumstances and their less decisive nature can force the protagonist to resort to other means, beyond just having a more powerful robot. These may include tactics, terrain, Geass or other forms of trickery, on and off the battlefield. They might not always be as "exciting" as winning a fight through a contest of raw strength, but I do believe it can still be quite interesting. And, in the end, I also believe that seeing the protagonist lose or tie a few times rather than win adds a lot of variety and a bit of tension to a genre where things tend to be decided in favor of the titular robot. That this doesn't automatically happen here is a good thing in my book. And it should be said that the Lancelot does actually lose a couple of times, even if it's admittedly an exception rather than the rule. If Lelouch's losses can be considered as relatively predictable, why is that supposed to be so bad, especially compared to all the predictable victories in the majority of other series? It's actually a welcome change, I think. Even when the Guren Mk II is introduced, that only allows for the possibility of a stalemate, not so much a decisive victory. Having the Guren around isn't always enough to resolve the outcome of the battles involved either. So I don't see how that is any worse than the limited number of unique mobile suits piloted by aces that can truly stand up to a powerful protagonist unit in most Gundam series and many other mecha shows. It is also worth mentioning that there are practically no power-ups during the first season either. New mecha might be introduced, but they are not inherently "superior" to what came before. spoiler[Even the Gawain has a couple of weaknesses and, as Cornelia briefly showed, it can be put in a dangerous position in spite of being able to fly or shoot beams.] There's almost no such thing as an upgrade either. R2 is a different can of worms, absolutely, but I think that the fact its battles had more outright displays of power and strength will probably make them more "exciting" for some. Not so much for me nor for others, but then again I don't agree with making hasty generalizations in either direction. Even in that season, there were still a couple of mecha battles I did manage to like. |
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Arkov
 Posts: 120 |
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The Mech battles in Code Geass kinda irk me. Especially in R2 when spoiler[practically all other units become obsolete when up against the newest tech. Why send helicopters in when Lelouch can do a 360 and wipe them out before they even reach the battle?]
That said, CG is still my favourite anime. I just think it could have been that much better if they stuck to basic mechs/even matches and there was more focus on skill and strategy than who has the most upgraded mech.[/spoiler] |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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No, I expect that when you claim that a character is one of the best pilots in all of Britannia, than two of them don't die seconds into getting into battle (that's not an exaggeration). It destroys the idea that Britannia is a competent military force, and makes you question how they where able to take over the world with such incompetent pilots. The only people who can actually fight in this series are Suzaku, Kallen, and occasionally Bismarck and Li Xingke. I actually like that Lelouch can't fight, because it's established that Lelouch isn't a good pilot, the problem is that his better than a lot of people who are supposed to be ace pilots. I don't expect fights as good as G Gundam, but at least I expect fights better than Gundam Seed Destiny. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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What about Todou? As I said before, he never had a state-of-the-art KF but was still kicking arse. He almost single-handedly created a miracle before the series started and then was a force to be reckoned with despite the often high tech gap. He's the only character who could never be accused of relying on his machine to win a battle, which makes him in my eyes at least as good a pilot as anyone else in either series. Oh, and yes, the second series failed to keep the excitement and relative evenness of the battles from the first series, and so was poorer for it. The best battle was spoiler[the final duel between Suzaku and Kallen, and that was because they relied on skill rather than the broken abilities of their ninth-generation machines.] |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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You know, I'd like to believe that both of us are smart enough to realize this discussion isn't meant to be focused on the second season. 
To put it another way, talking about one of the last episodes of Code Geass R2 does not have much relevance here. That would be like if someone was discussing something that happened in Gundam SEED and suddenly an event from Destiny was brought up. It may be a fair observation, but the absolute lack of context isn't exactly going to be helpful. Nevertheless, it should be still noted that you're talking about a scene in late R2 where the skill of the pilots wouldn't have made any difference. The technological gap between them and their oppponent was just too large. In that case, it definitely was a situation where raw strength overcame any real or imagined skill. This also helps explain why I didn't like that either, precisely because the first season mostly avoided falling into the same trap. So yes, I can agree that's a bad thing, but it doesn't really represent the standard for this entire series.
If we are talking about the first season, then I feel that argument doesn't apply. Even in the second, which did make things worse as several battles resembled those of Gundam SEED Destiny, I'd still argue that a few of them (including the last one) were better and, in any event, there were simply less of them overall. After all, there are only 25 episodes in R2 instead of 50 or so in Destiny. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Todou was misused, he really should have been given a lot more screen time as not only a pilot but an adviser to Lelouch. By the time Xingke showed up I don't think the staff saw much use for him. |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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I guess this comes down to the whole bit about the classification of various Mecha series. If I might ask, do others here consider Code Geass as a whole to be a so-called Super Robot or a so-called Real Robot show? The original 1979 version of Mobile Suit Gundam really started the Real Robot phenomenon where mecha units didn't seem to simply have powers transcribed to them as older shows did. I considered it to be a part of the first category, and as such, Lancelot's seeming domination caused me to loose no sleep. However, someone looking at the show as a Real Robot anime might have some problems.
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3689 |
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I think a lot of people didn't see a mecha show at all in Code Geass, especially the first season. It was an over-the-top revolution story, where people just happened to use tanks shaped like humans, because that's just the over-the-top choice. Those people (myself included) were disappointed when things got Gundam (and bad Gundam, at that) in R2.
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