Forum - View topicThe place and "necessity" of fansubs.
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Fenrir
 Posts: 369 |
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Well after looking at most of the posts and finding nothing intelectually stimulating I felt like bringing up something that should bring up some interesting conversation and debate about the necesity of fansubs.
I'll be frank I think that fansubs are always going to be a neccesary part of the anime community for a few reasons however I do believe that there will come a time when fansubs won't be neccesary when it comes to the newest and most popular anime. I firmly believe that fansubs will always have a plays when we are still getting hack jobs such as One Peice put into the market and because there are so many titles that just would never get licensed and brought to to U.S although I'm surprised by some of the titles that have been licensed and shown up in recent years. I still believe there are some greats that will slip through the cracks such as Legend of Galactic Heroes, Metal Armor Dragonar, Beck and countless other great anime series that just don't have the wide range appeal that would allow them to be money makers. I think there also neccesary for some of the Japanese live action shows such as GTO andTokusatsu and other things as well but that's a far less popular and known region of fansubs. So with that said I think for the hardcore anime fan fansubs will always have a place and be a neccsary part of the fan community but that their days of being neccesary to sub the latest and newest anime is one that is definetly numbered. I think there more a neccesity for classic shows and niche market shows that would probably never get released here. Also please try to keep this to an educated debate and away from the mud slinging, flaming and all that other fun stuff that can pop up in these threads. [EDIT: Fixed up your topic title to correctly spell "necessity" and to make the thing look more formal overall (i.e. grammar and stuff). -TK] Last edited by Fenrir on Thu May 11, 2006 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coolerimmortal
Posts: 522 |
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As a scanlator and an avid fan of fansubs, I agree.
Fansubs are necessary. |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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That's not very clear: WHY are fansubs necessary in your opinion. I have to admit, I've never seen a fansub. I don't even know how to find them as a matter of fact and I'm not all that interested either (I'm also afraid of what I might download with it   ).
I've noticed that a lot of you do seem to watch fansubs, especially since you refer to anime that is not licensed here in the US yet. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it. Yes, I do feel that it is illegal and it is taking money away from the true owners. I also feel that you should buy it when it does come available legally in your home country. I guess I'm just not sure, it's a VERY large grey area... I do think that the fansubs should stop once it is licensed or at the latest, released. |
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trackstar1013
 Posts: 179 Location: Canada |
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I agree with you compleatly I think fan subbing is an extreamly important part of the genre, I personally would not have fallin in love with this style of animation if it werent for my friend brinning over a fansubed version of Trigun and Helling.
But I also think that people go way to overboard when it comes to fan subs, and free release anime. Many people find that after watching something fan subed they end up liking the way all anime is done. I think that anime is sort of a taboo topic for people not in the know. That they would never consider paying up to $35-$40 for a DVD. But with a fansub they get exposer to it and then build apon that. Anyway thats my 2 cents. |
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coolerimmortal
Posts: 522 |
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Why are they necessary? They popularize series. They bring anime to places where it is not available. They help licensors make decisions as to what to license. They enable us to watch rare series that will never see US distribution. When should fansubs stop? Never. Finish the project or don't start it at all, that's the way I see it. Stopping it when it's licensed, though the legally correct thing to do, is a disservice to the fans. You get them hooked and then drop the project? Not good. To make matters worse, some people live in countries where the series will never be available. In the case of manga, just look at 20th Century Boys fans. Imagine if all scanlations stopped when it was licensed. It will be at least 5 years before US releases reach the point where scanlators were when it was licensed, by my estimations. That's just too long; it makes people lose interest. Fansubs both create money for and take money from studios. On the one hand, fansubs are copyrighted material and the studios receive no money for them. On the other hand, the projects gain fame, popularity, and a fanbase. Do you really think Full Metal Alchemist would have taken off without fansubbers? Fansubs do the industry a great service. |
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opaquescum
Posts: 235 |
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I will say this there is a difference between need, and want. Personally I think need is just a high degree of want. You really do not need anything. Ofcoarse you will die if you do not get some things, but you do not need to live either.
That being said your saying you need a ice cold glass of lemonade. When in truth all you need is drinkable water. In other words nobody needs fansubs. People really like fansubs, and they feal they want more variety to choose from. They might justify this with excuses. All crimes begin with an excuse. The typical fansub excuses are the following. 1. I am actually doing the creators of the show a favor I am giveing the show exposure. This is an excuse if they wanted exposure they would have asked for you to give them exposure. They might grant temporary use, and other such legalities. They have made the choice not to in most cases. You may think that is dumb, but it is their choice not yours. 2. Well if it were available to buy or watch on TV I would, but I cannot so what is the harm. The harm is your stealing from someone else. Simply because someone is not selling something they own does not mean its up for grabs. How would you feal if your neighbor decided he really liked your car, but your not selling so he just takes it. Theft is theft. 3. This is really a grey area. Oh god I love this one the mythical grey area. Not white not black just a neutral shade. Well the gag is if your painting something grey chances are you are not totally fealing right about what you are doing. That grey is a way to make you not feal so bad. Yes people like to see the world in degrees. Well doing that is worse then doing that. In the end though its either right or wrong. Why not say it like this I am doing a bad thing, but I feal the ends are justifiable to get what I want. Nobody likes to see what they do as evil, or wrong. I am not makeing the point as to whether fansubs serve a useful or destructive purpose, but I am kind of tired of justification for doing bad things. In this case stealing. Now I am not saying that people that watch fansubs are evil or malevolent beings. What I am saying is stop pretending, or trying to make convoluted justifications. Fess up your partakeing in a criminal enterprise, and though you may not meet your victim face to face there is a victim. What of the legitimate dealers in anime. They spent money, and effort to bring their wares to you. If you are watching fansubs maybe your not giveing him, or her, or them the recognition they need to go buy more anime to sell to you. Your committing a crime. No amount of justification changes that, and the fact that you feal no need to make amends is quite frankly damnable. You do not need these things. You just really wanted them, and you went and took it. Simple, and unpleasant greed. I personally do not beleive there is a perfect human being out there. Most people bend the rules when it suits them, and aslong as you can confess to yourself that you do feal conflicted about it then atleast you do your victim a service. When you try to spin it as some moralistic, or ends justify the means. Well you are only fooling yourself. That kind of thinking is going to catch up to you in the end. Watching a Fansub whether it makes you feal dirty or not is a crime. That makes you a criminal just like the guy that broke into your neighbors house, or the guy who murdered the lady down the street. There was, and never has been a justification for what you have done. You were just looking out for number one yourself. You can try to spindoctor your motives all you like that will not change a thing. |
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Fenrir
Posts: 369 |
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[To opaquescum:]
If your gonna look et everything like that then your missing one key thing about law. The spirit of the law and the word of the law. Because these two things exist that's why people refer to things such as the grey area, the area where someone is breaking the word of the law but not the spirit of the law. This is why many people argue that fansubs fall into a grey area. The reason for this is that if not for fansubs, many people would not know that a show exists or even have the ability to watch it. Hence sure they are breaking copyright laws however the spirit of the law is not broken because the people that are watching it do not have the ability to watch it otherwise. Now however I will agree that these days, that does not apply to most fansubs considering shows like Naruto and Bleach are still being done which I agree is breaking the law in both spirit and word. Also if watching a fansub is stealing and copyright infringement then what does watching a raw consist of asking a friend to tape a tv program for you or even recording one yourself? My main point for this argument is what about some of the shows that are being fansubbed like Legend of Galactic Heroes not available on DVD yet or for purchase no licensed version and nearly 20 years old. Without fansubs the show would never have an american audience. Some of the shows that have come out here, have come out because of fans asking for an official release because of fansubs. I will conceed that many fansubs these days are blatantly breaking laws but I fell those done by certain groups are done in the spirit of how they started which was to let people that don't understand Japanese enjoy a great show. In japan there are tons of anime and its unlikely that we will ever get to view all of them so I fell that fansubs will always be a neccesary part of the anime industry because not everyone can speak Japanese or play Japanese dvds. [EDIT: Please do not excessively quote. Thanks. -TK] |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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The fact is that fansubs break the law, and that won't change. Whether this law that is broken is justified is a whole different story. Whether watching/making fansubs makes you a horrible person is a different story too. Fansub legality debates never end well because people usually have strong stances when it comes to morals.
Putting that aside, the original poster seems to be asking whether fansubs are necessary (assuming the word "necessary" doesn't carry too literal of a meaning). I like keeping up with the current anime airing in Japan, and if I wanted to watch them, I could either go to Japan and do so, watch fansubs, or wait for a domestic release. I wouldn't go to Japan for the sake of watching some anime on TV, and domestic releases take a while, so my connection to these new anime are fansubs. I, the impatient anime fan, keep up with these series through means of fansubs. If I like the show, I will buy the domestic release when it is out, and if not, then I probably won't do so. So to me, fansubs aren't exactly necessary, but they do keep me connected to the newest anime airing in Japan. |
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space clam
Posts: 636 |
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I swear to God this is like the debate of using speed mods on DDArghFreak. These days, I'm not going to try a new animoo at the video store because it's expensive, and I don't defecate money yet. So, if I am, it's got to be something I've seen *somewhere* (likely fansubs, maybe TV if I'm behind the times). If the fansub didn't exist, I wouldn't watch the show anyway, and so the company isn't losing money on me. Also, I doubt that the 4chan Party Van is going to show up at my house demanding I hand over all my Air Gear. Because of that no-enforcement piece, I really don't care which laws I'm breaking. I'm pretty sure importing IIDX 11th CS to play on a modded PS2 breaks a law or 2. Like most people, I don't care if I break the law, just if I get caught breaking it.
So are they necessary? To get my market share they pretty much are; how significant that is depends on how many people think the way I do. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I haven't seen one either, although my boss at work gave me a couple burned CDs with downloaded fansubs, but I have to download codecs before I can watch them.
I thought of maybe downloading, but decided against it, because it's probably a big hastle. I think it's better to just rent the stuff and if you like it, buy it. Or get it at a second hand store. |
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Hisdon
 Posts: 411 Location: Poquoson, VA |
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If it wasn't for fan subs I doubt The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya would be sitting at number 2 at the moment. on the bayesian estimate, nor would most people here know what it is.
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Marwin
Posts: 4 |
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For some people it is in fact a matter of necesity. Of course you can survive without but for some people(me for example), fansubs are absolutely necessary to watch anime. In Norway a DVD with 3 or 4 episodes costs at least 300kr(50 USD). Example: If I wanted to buy Elfen Lied (13 episodes) I would have two pay a total of 1200 kr(200 USD) wich is quite a lot for one show, and what if I didn't like it? If I were to buy all the anime I have seen (not that I could, aviability is much worse in Norway than the US) I would have ended up spending enough money two buy a new car. Spending so much money on something like this is of course impossible for anyone who isn't rich. So, it is in fact necessary for a lot of people to download fansubs.
Calling it a crime is definetly going too far and comparing it to burglary is just silly. Even if you were to call it an offense I think speeding or illegal parking would be much worse.... |
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Fenrir
Posts: 369 |
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to those of you following this thread you'll notice I changed the title a little bit to clear up the goals of the thread and get some good discuision from people. This was called the necesity of fansubs.
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joel_s95387
Posts: 1804 Location: California... The Village Hidden In The Porn |
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I wonder if [they], whoever the hell is supposed to enforce these fansub laws, will ever resort to another downloading music incident?
Remember all those people, kids and adults (although some of the kids starred in a Pepsi commercial in the Super Bowl promoting free music downloads... hardly a punishment) who were arrested a couple of years back? I kind of hope it happens to the people downloading/posting fansubs or [scanalations?]. I highly doubt it considering Music was only a big deal because it affected many "powerful" (yes a person with money is very "powerful" in America) people in America. If enough Anime creators/staff members can step up, and probably slip the FBI a good amount of money, this can be accomplished. But I highly doubt it. Long story short, law says downloading licensed material is illegal and the law always wins... if it catches the perpetrator. |
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Fenrir
Posts: 369 |
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I'm sorry to say Joe the law always wins is one of the most false statements I've ever heard. How many criminals get away with murder when caught because they have power or work for someone who does. The law doesn't always work. Heck one of the girls that got prosecuted in music was for downloading nursery rhymes christ most of them were just put up by random people not even copyrighted. Also the classic example OJ simpson. Unfortunately the law doesn't always win and also it isn't always right either. Also the whole mp3 downloading and the companies going after people almost got the companies in trouble also. The RIAA was almost sued for price fixing but because they almost got caught CD's finally went down in price. Glad I live in Canada and we thumbed our noses at holywood and the record industry and said if you don't want it to get out there protect it better. |
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