Forum - View topic

Just finshed Gungrave (Caution: *SPOILERS* with NO tags).

There’s a little symbolism here too if you pay attention, I think this meant that they completely trusted one another enough now to pull the trigger without hesitation *hence, having each other’s guns… I mean would you trust just anyone with your gun? *

It says:

“No more lies… no more betrayal…”

Anyway, this action has just about everyone who gets to the scene later on shocked… except for MIKA, who finally really understands the true bonds and extent of FAMILY

The thing is, even though HARRY killed and betrayed BRANDON, BRANDON never really stopped considering HARRY as his best friend, his family. So now MIKA finally understands the concept to heart and that FAMILY is FOREVER

MILLENION is simply the organization that brings people together. FAMILY is what keeps it together. THE CODE OF IRON is there to protect it, but then everyone's different perception of FAMILY transcends THE CODE OF IRON.

The epilogue shows us how HARRY and BRANDON met as kids, we also see the rest of the cast *that is dead* one last time welcoming HARRY and BRANDON "home"

As for the thing with MIKA, she exists to BE protected... just because you can't do anything for anyone doesn't mean that you should be left to die...

she embodies the OLD MILLENION and what it stood for

later, since I need to watch something off the TV...

but for now, do we still need spoiler tags? It kinda implies ENDING in the title anyway

But the problem is, I can't accept the fact that Harry betrayed his BEST friend, KILLED him and EVERYONE he cared about, and only shows remorse by crying for his mistakes and having themselves kill each other.

Sorry, but that doesn't cut it for me. This only goes to prove that the death of Daddy, the Tokioka bothers, Maria, Bunji, Bear, and just about everyone else was all for what, to show the value of being Family?

Harry DESTROYED that concept in addition to taking precious lives when he was on the verge of becoming the boss of Millenion. Aside from Brandon, their old street gang, Sherry, and possibly Bear, Harry never cared for anyone else in the series.

Again, I'll reiterate how I feel everyone's death meant next to nothing. The fact that Harry either contributed directly or indirectly to all of those casualties, including Brandon's, shows he lost his sense of what Family was.

I also find it absurd that Mika would be happy to discover and realize the ultimate ideal of "Family is forever," while totally disregarding the fact that the murderer of her mother and the man she fell in love with (both for Maria and Mika) had the same epiphony of that same concept, which I guess was reason enough to forgive all of Harry's sins prior to that moment and not be angry at him anymore .

I'm sure at least Daddy and Maria were close enough to be considered Brandon's Family. Yet after all of that rage and quest for vengeance as Beyond the Grave, he just threw it all away in the end for a man that he had forgiven quicker than it takes me to turn around and fall on my bed.

Millenion did bring people together. Family did NOT keep it together because everyone switched sides after Harry took over. The Code of Iron protected no one because Sid and Daddy were killed, and it did nothing to help Brandon's memory after he was killed. The transcendence above the Code of Iron only goes to show the TRUE meaning of Family, which Harry had lost his grasp on.

The Code of Iron was to always kill traitors. I'll credit the metaphor that Brandon "chose Harry over Millenion," but Harry chose himself over Brandon and what Daddy had wanted Millenion to be, which was Family.

Family is supposed to stick together, no matter what. Harry did not stick with Brandon, therefore he shunned the most focal point of that concept completely.

I never said she had to die. And I would've been OK had they written her character to better reinforce the symbolism of being someone/something to be protected.

It's just that from an observational perspective, she always seemed to grieve nonstop. And her dialogue and actions never captured the essence of old Millenion for me either. She rarely had any interaction with anyone to even be considered Family, aside from the relation Brandon had with her mother.

I also didn't see how her personality contributed to any other character (aside from Brandon again) to show that she understood the concept of being in a family.

Contrary to being that residual element of old Millenion and that something to protect, I don't think you exactly have to be considered the entity to BE protected in the first place.

Simply put, while it's nice that she represents the affirmation of old Millenion, my stance is that her character was still horribly written (and voiced). The writers (and sound director) could've done a MUCH better job, in my opinion.

What you’re not taking into consideration though is the decades worth of weight those 15 minutes of reminiscence had. Of which, I might add, was conveyed BRILLIANTLY by portraying the different versions of Harry and Brandon over the years.

Ultimately, Harry learned of his mistakes the hard way. Everyone he cared about died, his entire organization betrayed him, the Orgmen that took so much time and money to make were destroyed and he was ultimately forced to live in such lowly shame. In fact, he really only acknowledges his denial later on in the last episode when the reality of the situation is just incredibly apparent.

If you recall, he even pleads Brandon to shoot him since he doesn’t want to bare the weight of shame and guilt anymore.

Talking about that, actually, the thing about the whole episode was that Harry wanted Brandon to have shot him back then 13 years ago in the elevator. I think he would’ve preferred that as opposed to being betrayed by his best friend. But at the time, Brandon just couldn’t bring himself to do it.

That alone proves that Harry really cared about Brandon. Harry cared enough for him to want to be killed instead of not being able to realize his dream along side Brandon.

This could be considered the very moral of GUNGRAVE.

At the very beginning of the series, Mika wanted to exact revenge on her mother’s murderer; she even put it before actually burying her and mourning her death. I think Tsuru wanted to point out the very tragic nature of revenge and ultimately how superficial the concept is in itself.

If you remember, the fact is that she eventually decided that revenge isn’t worth the trouble and that there are more important things in life; this was made very apparent in the scene where she begged Brandon to forget all about “revenge” and killing Harry and to just go away with her somewhere. That decision alone proves the significant jump in her character; she decided that getting revenge at the expense of Brandon’s life (or lack thereof) and suffering (from fighting his old comrades) wasn’t worth it. But Brandon, being who he is, kept fighting because it was his duty.

As for finding Mika’s voice grating, well, nothing I can do there… you could always check out the dub :p

I’ve seen the series in both languages quite comprehensively. While the dub doesn’t have the AWESOME DTS 5.1 surround, I lean towards the English production mainly since I felt that it had a lot more power, ESPECIALLY in the ending, which was just too well done for words.