Forum - View topicEmotions: Spontaneous vs. Forced.
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potatodood
Posts: 17 |
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I'm having a hard time understanding this and it's been on my mind for a while now. I've read some criticisms of certain anime that these shows "engineer" or "force" emotions on you so that they don't necessarily feel authentic. Some examples would be Clannad and AnoHana (two of my favorites).
My thought is that every aspect of an anime is made to elicit an emotion. Anime at its core is an entertainment medium, and to keep you entertained, it should garner an emotional response out of you, whether it be sadness, happiness or anything else. Take School Days for example, I'm sure the author/creator wanted you to hate the main character. If it kept you entertained by you hating the main character and you watched the entire series, I would say it has done its job. Back to AnoHana and Clannad, can someone explain why the emotions these anime create are artificial and somehow "cheapens" the series over a more spontaneous one. Can you give an example of an anime that creates a spontaneous and natural emotion? |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15590 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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From my understanding there can usually be two problems people might express from problems with emotions.
One issue is that a series tries too hard. It uses so many obvious tricks that come off transparent to get you to feel a certain way. Like one moment lets make everyone happy, we will use lots of happy people and bright colours so that the audience, and then lets make a character suddenly act crazy, use depressing music and dark visuals so the audience feels sad. This can be done well, but at times it can also come across as clumsy, like it is trying too hard to feel a certain way without it feeling organic. There is another way, it might be that it is done incredibly drastic, like things might seem all happy, or that things might look up, but then it shows that the writers are such big huge sadists to your emotions, like revealing that she was in the barn the entire time. Such strong emotions do have the chance of coming off as rather forced. Not that people can not enjoy these things, but some people have a problem suspending their disbelief too much. |
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yoshiyukiblade
Posts: 305 |
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Although I love Clannad: AS overall (one of my top anime), I can't really deny that at some point, it felt so forceful that I was spoiler[actually expecting a deus ex machina of some sort to turn the situation around.] Specifically, when spoiler[Ushio got sick and died in Tomoyo's arms, it was too soon and too out-of-character for her, supposedly a much stronger version of her sickly mother, to end up being weaker than Nagisa who as a child was passed out in the snow for God-knows-how-long.] Even if the entire solution regarding spoiler[light orbs, wishes and parallel universes] were hinted throughout the series, and that many people probably saw it coming, it still seemed a little inappropriate for it to be used in such a sudden and convenient situation. I also didn't really care for many of the side stories that may have been considered emotional, like spoiler[Fuko's story arc.]
In terms of Key's other works, Little Busters! is overloaded with such situations, except that virtually none of the characters were really likable to begin with, so all of their emotional struggles were a drag to watch. They were all too laced with the super-natural (Komari, Mio) or super-normal (Haruka, Kud), which tried to make each story uniquely dire, but it kinda failed to invoke anything emotional from me despite how hard they cried. I'm still holding out hope that the hyped "Refrain" story arc will turn things around. However, I'm starting to believe that the problem is in the story itself rather than a poor adaptation by J.C. Staff or something else. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4174 |
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Drama is like comedy in that it depends on the audience reaction. Why would they complain about the typical tearjerker moments like killing the small and the meek suddenly or showing the strong in a moment of weakness ... in a show where they tell you outright, "yes, there will be melodrama." The funny part is people complain about shows taking cheap emotional shots but on whether or not it works on them is usually left unsaid; It's just as artificial as any comedy but saying "I found it sad" seems a little hard for them to say. So they get antagonistic with it. "I don't cry" or "I never cry" also comes up. Me, I laugh, I cry. On the other hand, AnoHana ticks me off at how artificial their artificial drama is {same as Angel Beats}; The worst has already happened and "moving on" is the name of the game now but the show treats it as a "OMG, OMG, this is so tragic, they're miserable, they're crying, it's so ... sad ... and now you're crying too, aren't you?" I'm somewhat confident that the fifth stage of grief, "acceptance", isn't the one that gets the most "weepy eyes". Also, Angel Beats is a bit too manipulative even as these things goes; Yui isn't just a girl who died young {everyone died young here, maybe} but she's a spoiler[parapalegic, no, a quardapalegic, that's sadder, who died without knowing friendship, no first love, that's sadder, no true love, HA HA HA!] Misery fetish! |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Yes, all fictional stories try and invoke emotions. But there's a big difference between emotions that were blatantly manufactured, and emotions that are simply the result of the characters being themselves. For example, Ano Hana, Angel Beats!, Clannad After Story and Kotoura-san are all notable for how manipulative they are. In all of them the emotions are the point of the story rather than simply being a result from it, and they all rely on cheap tricks to get the desired emotional response from the audience. Speaking for myself, all of them backfired, making me dislike or even hate the writing instead of appreciating it.
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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It's a really terrible excuse that I don't even take seriously. If the manipulation did not work for you then simply say so. That is something that is so much easier to understand. Either the manipulation works or it doesn't. And all manipulation is 'forced'. There is always an intended reaction by the creator.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
Way to completely miss the problem. Bravo. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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Like most similar labels, it generally it comes down to if someone likes said show or not and which word they can use to either praise or insult a show. The fact of the matter is every fictional emotion is 'forced'. Obviously the writers want you to feel sad which is why they showcase a sad scene and play sad music. Cinema is entirely orchestrated so using 'forced' or 'engineered' or 'manipulative' is silly because that's the entire point.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
You need to re-read my earlier post. There's emotion that is naturally derived from the characters and drama, and there's emotion that is simply manufactured or forced. Take Ano Hana's final episode. The characters were crying far more than both the situation and their previously-established personalities called for. Or Kotoura-san's first episode, which spent ten minutes being incredibly over the top in its tragedy, far in excess of what was needed or was called for. Or the backstories in Angel Beats!, which again tried to be as tragic as possible even past the point of realism. Yuri's backstory was especially egregious in this regard. Clannad After Story I don't have to talk about, that one's obvious. It seems to me that you and people like you don't like the idea of there being forced emotions, because it is prevalent in the shows you like and you just want to defend them like the fanboy you are. But denying that there are different levels and categories of invoking emotions doesn't make it not true. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6602 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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@dtm42,
While I agree in general with what you argue I did have one different response from you. I thought the first ten minutes of Katoura-san was extremely funny. You're definitely right about it being incredibly over the top but I saw it as a piss-take. I enjoyed it so much I watched it about three times. Maybe I'm just a vicious sadist? |
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Cam0
 Posts: 4937 |
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And to me it seems like you are just hating on shows that you didn't like. Seriously the examples you listed worked for some (considering their popularity they worked for many). I recall that you liked Code Geass. The massacre was completely forced in a bit reaccuring Sunrise style. It came out of nowhere and it was just ridiculous how much the situation dependent on coincidence. The emotion there was forced (or more like the situation was), but it worked for many, me included. Would you say that you hated that particular scene in CG? |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I haven’t seen Clannad or AnoHana, but it is generally easy to spot manipulation. For example, bad things such as incurable illnesses usually, if not always, happen to cute girls, I suppose no one would care about an ugly person and making someone care about an ugly person would require better storytelling. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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So it's just a matter of spotting manipulation? Do you usually not see it or something? |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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 I don't understand what you mean.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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@errinundra:
Well, if I had to guess I would say that you found it so ridiculous in its absurdity so as to be unintentionally funny. And the scene of her screaming in the rain could especially be funny to someone who wasn't taking the show as seriously as it took itself.
I kind of liked it, as in some ways it was quite awesome in how over the top it was. It even spawned memes - for example spoiler[Euphinator] - and was very memorable and impactful, a "real holy crap they went there" moment. spoiler[Euphemia's death] was genuinely quite sad. But the root cause of it was indeed pretty stupid, and I wish Sunrise had integrated it more naturally. spoiler[The way that Lelouch had made that tasteless joke about ordering her to kill the Japanese just as his power permanently activated was too unbelievable.] So I liked the aftermath, but the root cause was badly written and totally forced. It's like the creators spoiler[wanted Euphemia to attack Japanese] but didn't know how to do it so they just shrugged their shoulders and resorted to forcing it through a cheap trick rather than spending the time and effort to making it work naturally. |
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