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Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total

It doesn't need to be said, and yet it does:

THIS IS NOT A THREAD TO REIGNITE THE OLD DUB VERSUS SUB BATTLELINES.

If anyone knows how to make that flash - especially in grating neon colours - I'd be grateful if they told me.

Just a bit of definition at the start; by "dub-only', I am referring to people who only watch dubs, not DVDs which have a dub but not a sub. I didn't want to confuse anyone.

I started this thread because I'm curious as to the reasons why dub-only buyers, both as a group and on the individual-user level, have taken the position they have. It's a heated issue, but let me just make clear that the purpose of this thread is not to judge you, or to find fault with your reasoning. It is not even intended as a place to "state your case", as I don't really see that you guys have a case to answer for. What you do with your money is your business, and you shouldn't have to defend yourself.

Some of you have already stated in the Talkback section why you insist on a dub when spending money. One guy mentioned that he had bad eyesight and cannot read subtitles, even on his big television screen. Another (and this seems to be a popular reason) said that they shouldn't have to pay the same price for a sub-only release than for a DVD with both Japanese and their native language.

As for myself, when I first got into Anime I always watched dubs. Always. I wasn't against subtitles in and of themselves, but I just wasn't used to reading them and following the action at the same time. And since the DVDs in my region were automatically set to English (still are by the way), I never even had to sample subs. Three things changed that. Tokyo Godfathers and Only Yesterday were both sub-only, and Crest of the Stars sported a dub so awful that I simply had to switch language tracks. Since then, I've gotten proficient enough with subs to be able to follow fast-paced sub-only shows like Tatami Galaxy (the poster-child for the usefulness of dubs) without too much trouble.

But even to this day everything I buy I will watch dubbed, if there is a choice. I just prefer it that way. I "grew up" on dubs, and there is something to be said for watching shows and movies in your native language. Yet I'm intrigued by people who have gone a step further and insist on dubs. I can understand (and even sympathise with) many of the reasons for wanting a dub no problem. But outside of the person who simply is unable to read subtitles, the thought process of requiring one is largely outside my comprehension.

Don't get me wrong; once again, I am not saying that such an opinion is bad or incorrect. But it is one thing to say, "Hey it's unfair that we have to pay the same price for sub-only than for a dual-track release", and another to then refuse to buy a show you might really really like just because of the lack of a dub. And this is my real reason for making the thread; I want to know what drives your strong stance on this matter. If you don't want to tell me then that's fine. It's not like this is an interrogation. But if you are happy to enlighten me, to share your thoughts and views and experiences, then I'd be really appreciative.

Cheers.

Well I don't watch ONLY dubs but I can tell you several good reasons why I prefer them.

A.) They're good for people like myself whose vision isn't 100%. I don't read very fast and can't keep up with subtitles if the series is an overly talkative one. If I watch subtitled works, it has to be with a pause button handy, but that disrupts the flow of the show. Dubs eliminate that annoyance.

B.) Subtitles force you to split your attention between the dialog on screen and the actual show which is slightly annoying. I can't do both at once only one or the other.

C.) Subtitles obscure part of the screen and interfere with the show. Dubs eliminate this distraction and allow you to watch the show the way it was meant to be seen.

Personally, if there was a dub I'd watch that if given a choice. If it's only available subtitled though and I wanted to see the show I wouldn't have a problem with it provided it's a DVD, stream, or fansub where I get a set of controls.

I don't know if I am the perfect person to answer, because I do buy sub-only anime. Satoshi Kon's catalog, and the more recent Hell Girl releases included. However, I do heavily restrict the anime that I buy if it is only offered in sub-only format.

Originally, I started off with sub-only anime as many dubs simply didn't exist, and to be honest the quality back then was usually pretty poor. Over the years dubs got better, and I found myself enjoying the anime much more when not reading subtitles. As long as the overall story was not affected I grew to prefer them. I find I can just pay attention more to everything that is happening in the scene, including the background, and this is coming from someone who everybody else says is a fast reader. To top it off, when the acting is on, I can just relate better and faster to the characters in question. If I could speak or even just hear fluent Japanese there is no doubt that I would never turn on the dub track. But that simply is not going to happen in my life, and I dare to say many other North American anime fans. If I was Japanese the original creator does not have the expectation that I will have to read the script while also watching the show and the moving art that is happening before me. Therefore, it is not created with that preconception in mind.

Basically, unless it is something I must have, if it doesn't have a dub I will pass. With neo-ADV venturing more and more into producing dubs again, I have been buying more and more of their shows. Including Blue Drop which came out sub-only first(didn't buy) and is now coming out (pre-ordered). It was one of those series that I felt I wouldn't enjoy unless dubbed, I realize that perhaps if I bought the sub version the likelihood of it being dubbed would increase, but it was title that I was iffy but still interested about anyway. Just not enough for that kind of purchase. I am a collector no doubt, but I am not mega-rich, so I want stuff that I will enjoy while at the same time supporting the industry by not just waiting for everything to go to insane bargain-bin prices. Simply, stuff I don't mind paying more money for, I will. Sub-only means I will simply pass on mediocre anime that I would have otherwise bought. Don't get me wrong, I don't buy everything that comes out, but I do buy a lot. Unless it is something I must have, I pass.

I do think it is important to reward neo-ADV/Sentai/Section 23 for venturing back into the dubbing business, so I have been buying their anime that have dubs even if it sparks the slightest interest.

All the reasons why I prefer the dub is explained a number of times already. And right now I don't have any sub-only DVD's for good reason. I still consider myself new to this anime genre. I'm still getting used to Japanese language and culture that seems to play a large part in most animes. I'm very familiar with the culture and language but I can hardly understand the emotions and accents behind Japanese seiyuus. I don't think I would unless I take the time to study the language.

I'm also biased to say I'm not so fond of the language because it's restricted in a way. With that in mind, it's quite impossible to pronounce some English word properly and I guess that distracts me. I also hated hearing the squeaky voice or overly masculine voice which I'm warming up to, I suppose. It still breaks my focus on watching the anime as I'm trying to watch the plot. Especially in my case, I get distracted a lot, so many subtle things may bother me to enjoy my anime.

When I hear English dub, I can hardly hear squeaky voice or overly masculine voice unless the VO really exaggerate like Major Armstrong in FMA. As long as the dub is read in emotions and at least subpar, I don't mind. Really I hardly find VO really bad enough I had to complain about. I'm just really used to English and I like the language overall.

dtm42 wrote:

And since the DVDs in my region were automatically set to English (still are by the way), I never even had to sample subs.

With the obvious exception of sub-only titles, I believe this is the case across all English-language areas. Presumably, such a convention is to the benefit of the wider audience.

Honestly I'm prefer sub over dubs. But I used to watch anime a lot when I was younger but then for a few years I stopped watching anime,back then I never liked dubs,but now since I started back watching anime again I have to say that dubs have improved tremendously and I have no problems watching an anime in dub! Very Happy

But I will always like subs but there are two reasons why I would watch a dub:
1.If my wife is watching an anime with me she can't stand reading the subtitles
2.This reason might sound weird but when I'm ironing my clothes so I know what's going on in the show! Shocked

Well, I watch dubs because it's easier for me to get into a show that's in my native language and while dubbing looks unnatural for live-action I expect it for anime. I can and sometimes do watch subbed anime but reading subtitles is rather taxing for me.

I think it's rather important for newer and younger fans to at the very least be provided the option of a dub. If DBZ was subbed on Cartoon Network then I probably wouldn't be into anime at all today (that's just me, so you can see where I'm coming from).

dtm42 wrote:

If anyone knows how to make that flash - especially in grating neon colours - I'd be grateful if they told me.

It wouldn't matter. Javascript is blocked on this site.

More importantly: we web developers fought long and hard to get Microsoft to drop the blink tag. Learn from this.
Wink

Now, onto the topic.

Dubs are important to me because there's less "work" to be had watching anime. I can sit back and watch Kagami strut her stuff rather than read what she's saying.

Animation would be pointless to me if I couldn't actually watch the animation itself. While I am getting better at "speed reading", I still find myself missing important piece of information in the subtitled world.

This gets more complicated in "hyperactive" series in which two or more characters are talking while the action is speeding through. Anyone who has witnessed Pani Poni Dash subtitled knows how this can get frustrating. I've yet to know anyone who didn't hit the rewind button once.

I've also noticed a growing trend in subtitled anime to disclose "culture notes" or background conversations as though they matter. When all this text bombards the screen, it takes away my enjoyment of the series.

Another importance in the dub is the relationship of the voice actor and myself. If there are certain VAs assigned to a role, this may break or make an anime's enjoyment. This is not to say there are bad/good VAs out there, but I'm quite comfortable to know how a specific character will be portrayed if "X" is voicing the role.

There's also the price I pay for anime regarding dubs, but I'll let this one go for now. It's really not that important and it's more a lie to myself than it is a valid reason.

Norm!

Ease. I always use the dub track because it's easier to watch and listen than it is to watch and read and listen. I can fold laundry, iron, make dinner, eat dinner, clean up after eating dinner, pay bills, check my email, file my income taxes, whatever, while I'm watching. I can do this because most of the shows that I watch, I've already seen several times. I don't need to stare intently at the screen for my 10th rewatching of Martian Successor Nadesico. As long as I am within eatshot of the TV, I know what is happening in the story at that point. This would not be true if I was watching something subtitled.

However, I don't only watch dubs. Some shows are only available via fansubs or don't have an English dub. Touch is my favorite show, and I sat on my couch and watched intently for all 100ish episodes. My bills were late that month and I wore dirty, wrinkly clothes and lost 20 pounds Wink

. And as dtm pointed out, Crest of the Stars has an awful, awful, painful, horrifying dub, so sometimes you just need to switch.

why must people ask such questions, I realize the part of the hard-core anime fan/Otaku mentallity is that dubs are not nessecary, and usually pale in comparison to the origional japanese (which I don't get since many japanese female VA's all sound simmilar to me, like chipmunks.) But its a simple answer really, I SPEAK ENGLISH, THEREFORE, I WATCH MOST OF MY ANIME IN ENGISH, of course im not a dub-only anime watcher, I do watch subs if a dub is not avalible, but yea, its just common sense really, most people prefere to watch a show in their native tounge, I mean just look at all the English movies dubbed in Spanish & French, why, because the people that speak those languages want to watch them without reading subtitles, same for me, I want to Watch my anime, not read it, if I wanted to read it, I would buy the manga (which half the time I end up getting the manga version as well anywho, lol.) but yea, As someone who is just an overall Animation nut, I like watching my toons & anime in English because well, I speak English. Laughing

Like the Topic Creator, I also grew up with dubs. This was of course before I even knew that anime exsisted. I just turned on the TV one day, and wham giant robots (which transformed into planes) were fighting giant blue aliens.

I was instantly hooked (sort of similar in the way I got hooked into Godzilla as well).

Then I found out that some of these shows that I liked as a kid were coming out on VHS. I saw that the sub only releases were actully MORE expensive than the dub version (I had a job, but it did not pay that well). So I got the cheaper version.

When DVDs started coming out, I gladly sold off all my VHS tapes (though some of them I still am not going to replace) and seriously got into anime big time. Back then they did not have any "Sub-only" stuff (and if they did, I did not see it at the local Suncoast).

I have seen all of what I own (with a few exceptions that I am working on) in BOTH ways, and personally both ways work just fine.

I usually do watch the dub first to figure out quickly what is going on in the show. Then later (after I can't really remember exactly what happens) I can watch with the subs. This is mostly to see what the "differences" in the sub vs. the dub.

On a rental (or Netflix) I usually only watched the dub (unless it was not dubbed). So I could return the movie quickly (and get another one).

At least now a days there is not a chance that the subs actually used the dub as the sub (AKA dubtitles).

I don't really mind if a small company (like Right Stuf for example) does a sub-only release. But if it sells well enough, they need to go back & do a dub (like Sentai does sometimes). However there are certain shows when it makes NO sense to do a sub-only release, like for example Emma: A Victorian Romance (which is set in Victorian England).

However when Sentai (it used to be a big company) does it, it is pretty annoying. Obviously when somebody huge like Bandai does it (Lucky Star OVA) then people get kind of irritated.

Of course the reverse is true as well. For example, there is NO reason that the Blu-Ray versions of Bandai anime (or anybody else for that matter) should be DUB-Only.

So I guess the main reason is that I am used to the dubs. Personally I have yet to really hear a "bad" dub. Only one show has come close to being "bad" IMO, that show is Lost Universe. The only part of that show that makes it a "bad" dub is during the commercial bumpers they have Canal (the girl computer) do a "oh goody" type squeal. In the Japanese version there is no squeal during this part, so I am not sure why they added it in.

So in conclusion I watch dubs, because I like them (and of course it is way easier to follow a show when listening in your native language).

It all boils down to Subs being inconvenient. I can't think of one anime that I watched subbed the whole way through without timing the pause button just so that I could finish reading. I like art-in-action, not text. Some anime work just fine when subbed, but in my opinion, Hell Girl seasons 2+3 are meant to be heard in your native tongue. Which is why I'm quite mad that Sentai/S23 couldn't dub them.

I've always wanted to see some survey of how anime dub-watchers prefer to watch their live-action foreign language films, and analysis of dub-watchers versus sub-watchers according to geography/culture.

How many people choose anime dub versus sub based on considerations specific to animation, as opposed to general habits? - Which vary hugely by country, of course: as pointed out above, some southern European countries seem especially to abhor subtitles in general, while other cultures (like Australia, for example) are more used to reading subtitles in general.

(I feel really paranoid contributing to this topic, as if I should include some disclaimer about not wanting to contribute to making trouble!)

Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thanks people.

It's been great to see all of the replies, and hence the variety of opinions and reasons that people have. Remember, there are no wrong answers when it comes to your viewing and purchasing habits, so don't be shy.

ailblentyn wrote:

(I feel really paranoid contributing to this topic, as if I should include some disclaimer about not wanting to contribute to making trouble!)

As long as people respect everyone else's opinion on this matter (whether they agree with them or not), then we'll all be fine.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, and if anyone comes here intending to make trouble then I'll report them straight away. Like I said in the opening post, I do not want to open up the debate of which one - sub or dub - is "better". I merely want to give those who prefer dubs a chance to state their opinions without fearing that they'll be attacked for doing so.

@aiblentyn, I always watch live action foreign movies in sub. Part of it is usually that whoever does the dubs just doesn't seem to care (look at Let The Right One In for example), but it's more that the mouths just so obviously don't match up that it's distracting. With animation, it's not as much of a problem so I'm cool with dubs, so long as they're good. Or at least not ear shatteringly bad. Of which I've only encountered three.

Dubs are important for me because I prefer to hear things in my native language spoken out loud. Another thing is that English in particular is a language that is subject to subtle changes in the meaning of a sentence depending on what word in a sentence gets emphasis. It's a bit harder to convey that in subs as well so having it spoken out loud can really matter. Now, you can always put italics on just that word word for the same idea, but I almost never see subs do that, although manga will. If subs use italics, it might be someone offscreen talking more than not but it's not used to emphasize words very often. Now and Then, Here and There did it, come to think of it, but for some reason they put words in quotations instead of italics, it was kind of offputting for me, but I got the idea all the same.

Also, I do find subs to be kinda inconvenient. Now, I can keep up with subs just fine at this point, unless I'm trying to watch Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei in which half of the background for at least 1/3 of any episode is a ton of words with subs over them too, but that's rare. However, I just feel like I'm missing part of the action, like subtle movements on screen, or heck, even major things for all I know. With dubs, I don't feel like I'm missing any of the action happening on screen. But subs kinda distract my eyes downward and my eyes can't quite multitask to both read the words and see everything on screen at the same time, and that's why I find them inconvenient.

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