Forum - View topicIn search of older tsundere.
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Opera Floozy
 Posts: 238 |
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Tsunderes are probably the phenomenon just second to moe that gets identified as ruining current anime. The supposed ubiquity of this archetype makes today's anime repetitive and predictable, as anyone can see how the character will develop.
Is this really the case? Did tsunderes really flood anime, or was it simply because someone has labeled the character archetype and listed identifying characteristics that such characters become more noticeable? I think it's the latter. To look for older tsundere, it's convenient to set a date as to what older means. According to Wikipedia, tsundere was popularized by the Rumbling Hearts VN, released in 2001. This is a good date to choose. However, the article suggests that the term existed before. I recall another person blaming Asuka of Evangelion for popularizing the character type. Evangelion is popular, and Asuka is well-known. I choose to define anime that predate Evangelion as older and briefly introduce some older tsundere from prominent series. Priss Asagiri from Bubblegum Crisis: Cold to Leon at first because he is a member of the police. Under his persistent helpfulness, she gradually opens up to him. This is actually illustrated better in the 2040 TV series, but that comes too late. Misa Hayase from Macross: When she first meets Hikaru, they had a rather unpleasant exchange with Roy listening in. By the end of the series, she's in a rather dramatic spoiler[love triangle involving him.] The point of turning probably occurred somewhere when spoiler[the Zentradi forced her to kiss him.] Nadia from Nadia: the Secret of Blue Water: Asuka's predecessor in attitude and Shinji's predecessor in design. Every stereotype of the tsundere archetype is collected in this character, and she is highly popular for that reason. Takeo Kumagami from Patlabor TV: She's not as well-known as Kanuka Clancy, whom she replaced around mid-season. Her general character is similar to Kanuka--a highly competent, mature, and collected professional, in stark contras to Noa. We see two instances of her dere dere side in the second OVA. In the first, we find that she has fond childhood memories of spoiler[the bear show.] In the second, we also see her tsun side, with a suggested past with spoiler[Richard Wong.] Akane Tendo from Ranma 1/2: If Misa is the poster girl for the gradual defrosting variation of the tsundere archetype, then Akane is the poster girl for the bipolar variation. She quickly switches from batting Ranma through the ceiling to blushing furiously at his (usually fake) compliments. There are certain more, but I restrict my survey in this post to prominent series. Do you agree that tsunderes are getting undeserved negative attention because the character type has been identified and labeled? Why am I defending them? S... stupid ANN forum visitors. It's not like I like tsunderes or anything. I just want to defend the character type. |
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Divineking
 Posts: 1296 |
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My issue with tsuderes isn't the fact that they exist or that their over played. My issue is that Tsuderes are normally just played as tsuderes and have nothing else to them. There are some interesting tsuderes like Tokiko from Buso Renkin, and Amamiya from Psyren, and it's mostly because there's more to them than arguing with the protagonist every 5 seconds.
Tsuderes can be interesting characters, but writers need to add more to their characters than just that. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I'll agree to your assessment Opera Floozy; that Tsundere archetype has been around a lot longer than the actual name for it.
I think that Tsundere behaviour is common because for one, it does reflect actual human behaviour. We can be both obnoxious and kind. Don't get me wrong, the archetype exaggerates it to an often ridiculous or annoying degree, but the basic pattern is there. Secondly, it is an easy character trait to do. Make a person (okay fine, female) as b*tchy as possible for twenty minutes, and then give them a cute scene. Easy drama, easy cute moments, and it drags out the main romance as long as needed (usually to the penultimate or ultimate episode). Thirdly, it's appealing. I theorise that the same feeling that women get of "I can change him" also works in a male audience. Plus, we guys seem to like knowing the secrets things that cute, embarrassed females try to keep (poorly) hidden behind a harpy exterior. So, all that said, I'm not surprised it has been around for as long as it has. And is it ruining Anime? Well, not on the macro sense, mostly because the profit it brings in offsets the creative stagnation. But for individual shows, yeah it kind of does. If I see another "Tsundere next door neighbour wakes up main guy and freaks out about his morning wood" routine I'm going to commit myself to an asylum. It's like taking stale bread (of tropes), burning it (in the fires of over-the-top stupidity), and then spreading . . . okay, the analogy ends there. |
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bob51
Posts: 17 |
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Honestly, a slight tsundere doesn't bother me, they can be enjoyable, on the other hand, the Rie tsundere formula is fuckannoying, especially the fact that they literally copied that for a while, at least it's been dying down but the actual tsundere archetype isn't a bother, Asuka from evangelion was a very humanlike character who is a tsundere, a good kind, of course, that's only my opinion.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Well at least Asuka had reasons - good reasons - for being the horrible way she was. Most modern Tsunderes are that way not for any in-universe explanation but because the fans love the archetype and the writers have jumped on board.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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I do not think I will ever understand how Asuka is considered a tsundere, as she never demonstrates a dere-dere aspect. Even at the end of EoE she's still pretty contemptuous of Shinji. Shayla Shayla from El Hazard: starts off very tsun-tsun towards Makoto after that incident in the hot springs when it's discovered that he is not Princess Fatora, but fairly quickly develops a massive crush on him, which she attempts to deny while she tries to start a relationship with him. To a lesser degree, Nanami Jinnai from the same show might be considered one in the sense that she pretends she doesn't like him, yet has a fierce rivalry with Shayla for him. It is a little questionable if she counts as a tsundere since she it's established pretty early on that she has been friends with Makoto. |
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