Forum - View topicOn Makoto Shinkai.
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Inspector88
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So last weekend was Global Shinkai Weekend on Crunchyroll and I watched Places Promised in Our Early Days, Voices From a Distant Star, and 5 Centimeters Per Second. I really enjoyed all three of these and thought they were wonderful. However, I feel like they're missing something. Maybe I'm just strange, but as much as I enjoyed them, it seems like they could be better. Part of me thinks that his characters aren't developed enough, but I'm not too certain. Visually, his works are stunning, and I love the art style that he uses. I also enjoy the music, even though it's nothing special. I definitely sense similar themes in his work: separation, waiting, space; and I like how he explores them. Am I being too critical? What are other people's opinions?
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24131 |
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I don't think it's a matter of you being too critical...I would just like a better sense of what you think his works are missing. Did they not connect with you at an emotional level, for example? For myself, I have a somewhat mixed reaction to the films as well. I, like virtually everybody else, absolutely love the look and texture of them. My "problem" if you want to call it that, is that Shinkai is just WAY too successful at evoking in me the loneliness, the yearning and the despair of his characters. Watching them is a very draining experience. It is hard to say after watching any of them, "Gee, I really enjoyed that." Don't get me wrong, I am glad I watched them. I will re-watch them in the future. But always at the cost of being bummed out for a period of time afterwards.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Personally, I think Shinkai is over-rated. The Place Promised in Our Early Days I don't have a problem with but that's not the case with Voices of a Distant Star and 5 Centimeters Per Second. The former was incredibly inconclusive and the latter ended strangely and confused the heck out of me. His films essentially sacrifice story in favor of pretty pictures, which is a philosophy that doesn't sit right with me. You can be artful and tell a great story simultaneously, however. It's not an either or thing. Plus how it ends ands is the most important part of the film/series that can make or break it.
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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His characters usually aren't meant to be that developed. He's a surrealist director and writer so he prefers his works to have the feeling of simply observing someone rather than being a part of them. It's hard to explain but his theory is more that you should connect with the story first and then the characters second. At least that's how I tend to see his works. A good example is Mushi-shi, you don't connect with the characters, you connect with their stories. As for that unsatisfied feeling at the end of the movies it's because his stories usually have the theme of "even true love isn't happily ever after." For example: at the end of 5cm Per Second spoiler[when Takaki Tono and Akari Shinohara pass each other on the train tracks and when he looks back she's gone. It's showing that even though they truly loved each other they still moved on. That sometimes the forces of distance and time can concur love. Or when Kanae Sumida realizes that Tono will never feel the same way about her as she feels for him.] It's a bitter sweet lesson like "better to have loved and lost than never loved at all." Also 5cm Per Second my feel lacking to sum because of the way it was structured. The movie was actually suppose to be an anthology that Shinkai decided to narrow down to his 3 favorite stories from the ones he wrote and somehow tie them together.
In general I personally feel Makoto Shinkai to be one of my favorite anime directors right now. He's a young guy who has already released some very powerful stuff. I expect big things from him in the future like in his up coming film that he's working on. |
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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No, you're not strange--I feel exactly the same way, and I think a lot of people do.
Hmm, that's interesting and I hadn't thought of it that way before. However, if the story is going to center on characters and their isolation, it's a fatal flaw to think keeping them at a distance is going to elicit a positive reaction from the audience--because why should we care? The reason something like Mushi-shi works is because the stories are brilliant, interesting, and wonderfully odd--Shinkai's stories are, by contrast, so simple (plotwise) that without the character connection they come off as half-baked. Also, his works are surrealist to a point, but in the end isn't his work always about the connection between two characters? He has this grand sense of drama and tragedy, but without connecting us to the characters those moments fall a bit flat--and I would posit that it's not intentional, that perhaps he does want to connect us to the characters. He just isn't quite sure how to. None of his characters stand out to me as particularly endearing--frankly, I can't remember any of their names. I've compared them to novels before--it's like watching a brooding novel unfold, except you don't have the luxury in film of padding it with description, so all his stills and gorgeous landscapes have to stand in for that...unfortunately he uses weak storytelling like voice overs and monologues on isolation rather than showing--which is key in films. Right now he seems to use the films as a vehicle for his own angst; if he focuses on rounding out the plot, connecting us more with the characters, and showing rather than telling he's going to be a lot more successful.
Unhappy endings can still have closure. In fact, I love bittersweet endings. I think the dissatisfaction comes from what I said above. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Did you really feel like The Place Promised in Our Early Days missed something, or did you just chuck it in with the others? I'd understand that the 30mins OVA was incomplete, in a way, and that 5cm/sec had a confusing ending, but in my view, The Place Promised in Our Early Days did an outstanding job with everything. What could be missing in this one? An aftermath, perhaps?
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6582 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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While agreeing with much of what has been said above I would add that his female characters are particularly weak. In She and Her Cat, Voices from a Distant Star and The Place Promised in Our Early Days, the main female characters are defined largely, if not entirely, by their relationship with a male. 5 Centimetres per Second is a step forward in that the two female characters get over the male character and move on with their own lives.
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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About the post above. In The Place Promised in Our Early Days, spoiler[a whole dimension distorter, or whatever that's called, is dumping everything on her, and she's stopping said tower from destroying the world by staying in a coma. In the end, she does wake up with her lover's help, but also with her own strength.] There's no weakness and I entirely disagree with you on that one.
Besides, living away from your beloved one doesn't make you a strong one. Rather, a strong one would fight and make his/her way to his/her beloved one. |
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rainbowcourage
Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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I think you're missing errinundra's point; regardless of the character's attributes, her portrayal is weak. She's two-dimensional, and kind of lingers as a presence throughout the whole movie; we see her almost entirely through the eyes of the two male leads, whose own development and interplay outreaches Sayuri's. At best, she's idealized and altruistic; the same can be said of Mikako, whose only defining characteristics are her isolation and her devotion to the war and to her lover. That's it. And that's not the portrait of a real human being. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6582 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Sawatari (a Japanese / English pun on solitary?) is completely helpless. Without the male character she would have continued to rot in her dreams. While he is out trying to save her and the world all she worries about is if she'll remember that she loved him. I much prefer female anime characters with some agency over their fate. Anyway, we have our different takes on it. I guess we disagree. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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You got it wrong. He didn't save her. spoiler[The promise did. He just supported the promise and made it become true.]
A single question: if you were in that world would you actually worry about the world's economical situation instead of your beloved one? My god, that coming from me. MONEY IS EVERYTHING, am I clear? Who cares about love anyway. I'll just drop my point and agree with you. Last edited by egoist on Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6582 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Yes, but what does she DO in the film? Other than sleeping or sitting around looking pretty?
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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She's a freaking slacker who sleeps all the time. God help that damned slacker. I shall slap her butt with my golden belt of justice, thus it'll all become as clear as evil clouds during a cloudless day. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6582 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I'm not criticising her so much as trying to illustrate Shinkai's weakness at portraying female characters. In all his works, the main female is a victim who elicits our sympathy. It's almost as if he has a fetish with women as victims. At least, in 5 Centimetres per Second Akari and Kanae, while starting of as victims of Takoko, leave him behind. The surfing sequence is my favourite part of the film, largely because Kanae's character develops along with her skill. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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We clearly see "victim" with different views. My view is clearly distorted, so no wonder a lot of talk is generated from my comments. I see a girl tortured by a force that couldn't be resisted, and yet she doesn't ask for her own death. Another that was a coward and couldn't tell her beloved one face to face about her love. Which one is stronger? Is there a correct answer?
Did I just ask an one-sided question? By the way, this post is incomplete, since I forgot about the rest. |
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