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Charlie_Conway
Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 21
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:51 am
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Quote: | Overall (dub) : B
Overall (sub) : B |
That's a bit of a surprise. Maybe I'll give this one a chance....
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Otaking09
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 637
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:59 am
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I'm actually very happy about this review.
Y'know why?
First off, I found the first half to not be all that bad! When the first half review got published, I was let down because all that review did for me, was plant a seed of doubt that "the series won't be good overall".
vashfanatic also stood sturdy on that claim, and while I was defending the fact that "average series can be good fun" (Slayers is a prime example!), nearly everyone digressed...
Another thing that I was proudly defending, was Gonzo itself. Yes I Gonzo's potential, and how different things have changed. But y'know what? I love Speed Grapher's modesty, Tower of Druaga's feel, Welcome to the NHK's morality/humanity, and Shangri-La's attitude!!!
So I'm ultimately happy, that Gonzo created another series that just pleased people. Because, when it's all said and done, that's what really matters!
Good job Key (as always...), good job Funi, and good job Gonzo!!!
(Why hasn't ANN reviewed Shangri-La yet?????)
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Buster Blader 126
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 1207
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:24 am
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Otaking09 wrote: |
Another thing that I was proudly defending, was Gonzo itself. Yes I Gonzo's potential, and how different things have changed. But y'know what? I love Speed Grapher's modesty, Tower of Druaga's feel, Welcome to the NHK's morality/humanity, and Shangri-La's attitude!!! |
I thought that Tower of Druaga and Welcome to the NHK! were seen as some of the better shows Gonzo has put out as of late. (I quite enjoyed NHK!, actually.)
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vashfanatic
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3495
Location: Back stateside
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:17 am
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Seriously? You consider the second half stronger? And their attempts at character building and plot twists actually made it better?
Wow, I think this puts the final nail in the coffin (after a many a review) to the idea that Theron Martin and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of series. I don't know whether it's that you have different tastes or are just way more forgiving of what I consider totally stupidity or boredom, but there it is.
The second half of Dragonaut's primary positive to me? It's so awfully idiotic as it painfully tries to be deep and insightful that it's downright funny. This is not an "average" series, Otaking09, this is a really moronic and bad one. Maybe it is to you what Speed Grapher was to me, so bizarre and wtf?? that you got hooked on it, but the only fun I got out of this series was in mocking it. I'm not knocking GONZO in general, but this one is not good. Seriously. Erin's review over at Shelf Worthy was much more on target that this. I'm... baffled by it getting a B.
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ChocoBar
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 164
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:02 am
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vashfanatic wrote: | Seriously? You consider the second half stronger? And their attempts at character building and plot twists actually made it better?
Wow, I think this puts the final nail in the coffin (after a many a review) to the idea that Theron Martin and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of series. I don't know whether it's that you have different tastes or are just way more forgiving of what I consider totally stupidity or boredom, but there it is.
The second half of Dragonaut's primary positive to me? It's so awfully idiotic as it painfully tries to be deep and insightful that it's downright funny. This is not an "average" series, Otaking09, this is a really moronic and bad one. Maybe it is to you what Speed Grapher was to me, so bizarre and wtf?? that you got hooked on it, but the only fun I got out of this series was in mocking it. I'm not knocking GONZO in general, but this one is not good. Seriously. Erin's review over at Shelf Worthy was much more on target that this. I'm... baffled by it getting a B. |
You're not the only one bro. All of Theron's reviews seem to run this way, he seems to ignore all the glaring flaws of the series and just focuses on the extensional features like the dubbing and fanservice, not once in this review did he go over his claims over why he thought the writing was better in the second half and just seem to rant on about insufficient aspects of it. Truly disappointing.
Otaking09 wrote: |
So I'm ultimately happy, that Gonzo created another series that just pleased people. Because, when it's all said and done, that's what really matters!
Good job Key (as always...), good job Funi, and good job Gonzo!!!
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Are you just gonna be ignorant to the massive about of hate this series gets for good justification, I'm not sure how many people were "pleased" by how this series turned out.
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The King of Harts
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6712
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:28 am
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Quote: | You're not the only one bro. All of Theron's reviews seem to run this way, he seems to ignore all the glaring flaws of the series and just focuses on the extensional features like the dubbing and fanservice, not once in this review did he go over his claims over why he thought the writing was better in the second half and just seem to rant on about insufficient aspects of it. Truly disappointing. |
Or perhaps he just watches a show and grades based on pure entertainment value rather than dwelling and hammering on all the bad things like most reviewers do. Maybe he still found Dragonaut fun to watch despite it's flaws. This is why he's the only reviewer I give stock to, because he just wants the shows to fun to watch and he doesn't put much stock in things like writing, animation or art because he feels they aren't nearly as important as enjoyability. He's just a much more relaxed reviewer than others; he's an Average Joe, if you will.
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CareyGrant
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 453
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:35 am
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vashfanatic wrote: | Seriously? You consider the second half stronger? And their attempts at character building and plot twists actually made it better?
Wow, I think this puts the final nail in the coffin (after a many a review) to the idea that Theron Martin and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of series. I don't know whether it's that you have different tastes or are just way more forgiving of what I consider totally stupidity or boredom, but there it is.
The second half of Dragonaut's primary positive to me? It's so awfully idiotic as it painfully tries to be deep and insightful that it's downright funny. This is not an "average" series, Otaking09, this is a really moronic and bad one. Maybe it is to you what Speed Grapher was to me, so bizarre and wtf?? that you got hooked on it, but the only fun I got out of this series was in mocking it. I'm not knocking GONZO in general, but this one is not good. Seriously. Erin's review over at Shelf Worthy was much more on target that this. I'm... baffled by it getting a B. |
Me too. B!? Erin had this pegged, dead to rights the first time. Nothing about this series was ever "above or better than average" or "very good," unless your counting the over the top and completely unrealistic, back-achingly bountiful *ahem* female mammary anatomy on constant gravity defying display.
I will say the "WTF" for this series got an A.
But to each there own. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
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CareyGrant
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 453
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:45 am
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The King of Harts wrote: |
Quote: | You're not the only one bro. All of Theron's reviews seem to run this way, he seems to ignore all the glaring flaws of the series and just focuses on the extensional features like the dubbing and fanservice, not once in this review did he go over his claims over why he thought the writing was better in the second half and just seem to rant on about insufficient aspects of it. Truly disappointing. |
Or perhaps he just watches a show and grades based on pure entertainment value rather than dwelling and hammering on all the bad things like most reviewers do. Maybe he still found Dragonaut fun to watch despite it's flaws. This is why he's the only reviewer I give stock to, because he just wants the shows to fun to watch and he doesn't put much stock in things like writing, animation or art because he feels they aren't nearly as important as enjoyability. He's just a much more relaxed reviewer than others; he's an Average Joe, if you will. |
Ok, run that by me again. How do you "enjoy" a series with such glaringly obvious flaws and shortcomings in writing, animation, or art (the backbones of any animation)? That's something I understand less than this show getting a B.
I find nothing enjoyable about a series with flaws in any two of the three points you illustrated, especially writing.
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Aura Ichadora
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 2303
Location: In front of my computer
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:31 pm
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CareyGrant wrote: | Ok, run that by me again. How do you "enjoy" a series with such glaringly obvious flaws and shortcomings in writing, animation, or art (the backbones of any animation)? That's something I understand less than this show getting a B.
I find nothing enjoyable about a series with flaws in any two of the three points you illustrated, especially writing. |
It's quite easy, actually.
xxxHolic (first season, not Kei) is easily one of my favorite anime of all time. However, the animation is below par compared to most shows (I mean, the characters all look like beanpoles in the anime, but look better in the manga), the episodes being a bit out of order compared to the manga, and all crossover elements between it and Tsubasa have been erased entirely. Even with those flaws, I still love the series because it's still entertaining and fun to watch.
Same situation with Naruto and the English dub for Yu-Gi-Oh!, although I could probably name some others. Just because a show has flaws, even if they are extremely obvious, doesn't make them any less enjoyable to the casual watcher.
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animeboy12
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 160
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:53 pm
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CareyGrant wrote: |
The King of Harts wrote: |
Quote: | You're not the only one bro. All of Theron's reviews seem to run this way, he seems to ignore all the glaring flaws of the series and just focuses on the extensional features like the dubbing and fanservice, not once in this review did he go over his claims over why he thought the writing was better in the second half and just seem to rant on about insufficient aspects of it. Truly disappointing. |
Or perhaps he just watches a show and grades based on pure entertainment value rather than dwelling and hammering on all the bad things like most reviewers do. Maybe he still found Dragonaut fun to watch despite it's flaws. This is why he's the only reviewer I give stock to, because he just wants the shows to fun to watch and he doesn't put much stock in things like writing, animation or art because he feels they aren't nearly as important as enjoyability. He's just a much more relaxed reviewer than others; he's an Average Joe, if you will. |
Ok, run that by me again. How do you "enjoy" a series with such glaringly obvious flaws and shortcomings in writing, animation, or art (the backbones of any animation)? That's something I understand less than this show getting a B.
I find nothing enjoyable about a series with flaws in any two of the three points you illustrated, especially writing. |
isn't it surprise that still, in 2010 on the internet everyone still thinks their opinion is right?
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Otaking09
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 637
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:56 pm
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You guys don't get it!
It doesn't take stunning animation, original art, or even a 100% original story to make a good series.
All you need is heart. That's it! If there is just a little passion in the beginning, it makes ALL the difference in the end...
Some stories replace "heart" with "brain". So that could explain why many people just flat out hate this series! It just doesn't flow with their brain waves; it insilts their intelligence.
As for what Erin was reviewed? It's Shelf Life! You can't compare a review based on pure enjoyment, with another based on facts, statistics, plot, AND enjoyment! It just can't be done! I loved Speed Grapher, even though it had some of the worst appeal Gonzo did. They character chemistry, the villains intentions, the interesting fights, and the cool voice acting was all it took to make me hooked!
I think Key did the right thing in reviewing this series in what it does, rather than how it did it.
Take too series: Eureka Seven and Gurren Lagann. Both mechas. Both goals are to save the world (ultimately...), they both did it, in separate ways! No tell me, how is that so bad, that another series, does the same thing?
The answer? It isn't bad at all.
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the Rancorous
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:25 pm
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Aura Ichadora wrote: | Just because a show has flaws, even if they are extremely obvious, doesn't make them any less enjoyable to the casual watcher. |
That's not really what people are talking about here. What they are saying is that Dragonaut is not even average, it is bad. It is filled with so many flaws and shortcomings that invokes facepalms right and left. Its poorly written, poorly directed, the characters make all kinds of nonsensical choices and that ending was all sorts of not just cliched tropes, but very lame in general: "How do we defeat Xanatos? How'bout with the power of love?" Dragonaut is not average, it is much below average, it really can not be called 'good' by any means (well okay, the animation probably could, but that's it) and be justified. I will say that things did get better in the latter half, but its less 'redeemed itself' and more 'this end of the garbage dump doesn't stink as much as that end.' It could have worked as a parody or farce series, I feel it really could have. But, it takes itself way too seriously to be such, and so it is just a really bad show.
Otaking09 wrote: | All you need is heart. That's it! If there is just a little passion in the beginning, it makes ALL the difference in the end... |
I'm thinking of the movie Haruhi made in Haruhi Suzumiya, and so I just have to laugh at this justification. Besides, I really didn't feel any 'heart' in this series, just 'by the numbers' stuff.
animeboy12 wrote: | isn't it surprise that still, in 2010 on the internet everyone still thinks their opinion is right? |
What's more baffling to me is that people still seem to think that opinions can't be wrong or unfounded.
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18458
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:38 pm
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Let's be clear about one thing here:
I did not review the second half of this series based solely on entertainment value. (When I do that - as I do upon occasion - I will usually make it quite clear in the review that I am doing that.) I honestly thought the series came together much better in its second half and still think that those who don't recognize some improvement are letting the genuinely bad first half of the series color their impressions of the second half. Also keep in mind that I watched the two parts almost three months apart, so the improvements may have been more obvious to me than to someone who watched all of it straight through.
Also clearly understand that these grades are not for the series as a whole; just the second half. For the entire series, I'd probably give it a C/C- for writing and C/C+ for Overall.
You're certainly welcome to disagree; it would hardly be the first time I've submitted unpopular grades for a series. But I will always call 'em as I see 'em, rather than how the majority of fandom sees 'em.
And really, if you think I didn't address why I thought the writing improved, then you need to go back and read the review again.
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egoist
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:43 pm
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the Rancorous wrote: | What's more baffling to me is that people still seem to think that opinions can't be wrong or unfounded. |
Isn't that exactly how you're acting? Just read this:
the Rancorous wrote: | That's not really what people are talking about here. What they are saying is that Dragonaut is not even average, it is bad. It is filled with so many flaws and shortcomings that invokes facepalms right and left. Its poorly written, poorly directed, the characters make all kinds of nonsensical choices and that ending was all sorts of not just cliched tropes, but very lame in general: "How do we defeat Xanatos? How'bout with the power of love?" Dragonaut is not average, it is much below average, it really can not be called 'good' by any means (well okay, the animation probably could, but that's it) and be justified. I will say that things did get better in the latter half, but its less 'redeemed itself' and more 'this end of the garbage dump doesn't stink as much as that end.' It could have worked as a parody or farce series, I feel it really could have. But, it takes itself way too seriously to be such, and so it is just a really bad show. |
Apparently you never considered the fact that your own opinion, or the others criticizing the show, could be wrong, and the review right.
But then again, "if you have a problem with that, then create your own damn studio" anime. Go, show them, cowboya. [/irony]
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tuxedocat
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:45 pm
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Actually, I find reviews and people's opinions help me know how to approach a title. I'm usually looking for two vital elements; animation and storytelling. If I see people in agreement that both of these things are there, I am more willing to buy. At the very least, I will put it at the top of my rental queue for a preview.
There are exceptions. Sometimes the animation is so exceptional that it will overcome flaws in the storytelling. Sometimes the opposite is true.
From what I am reading here, the animation in Dragonaut is slightly better than the norm (?), but the storytelling is terrible. Also there is a heavy presence of fanservice, which I usually consider a flaw overall. So I'll probably put it somewhere low in the rental queue. If I end up liking it despite all its flaws, it will be on sale by the time it hits the top of my queue.
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