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When will filler/summary episodes be unviable?


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HyugaHinata



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 3505
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:16 am Reply with quote
I know that this is only likely to happen (at least today) with animes that have a complete plot is ready beforehand (i.e. FMA and its alternate storyline after episode 25 or so). I don't know why kids in Japan watch Naruto filler and summary with boggled eyes.

I do have a theory about what could end this flood of filler (especially in shounen) - a long series without filler, such as a Hunter x Hunter remake. Very Happy
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6712
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:16 am Reply with quote
It'll happen when anime directors decide to break the unwritten rule of following a manga verbatim. It's either that the directors are afraid to branch out and be their own artist and be more creative with the story or the fans are practically forcing them to regurgitate exactly everything that happened in the manga because they demand it that way and anything less is inferior. If a director strays from the manga he get's bashed and if he tries to follow along exactly you get tons of fillers to stall for time or you get rushed endings due to "not enough source material" (I hate that) and he gets bashed for that.

The thing about anime adaptations, though, is that you have strike while the iron's hot and you sometimes can't wait til a manga is done because it may be losing steam by that point or you just never know how long a manga will be. Although, I find that the best shows don't have source material at all.
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HyugaHinata



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:08 am Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
It'll happen when anime directors decide to break the unwritten rule of following a manga verbatim. It's either that the directors are afraid to branch out and be their own artist and be more creative with the story or the fans are practically forcing them to regurgitate exactly everything that happened in the manga because they demand it that way and anything less is inferior. If a director strays from the manga he get's bashed and if he tries to follow along exactly you get tons of fillers to stall for time or you get rushed endings due to "not enough source material" (I hate that) and he gets bashed for that.

The thing about anime adaptations, though, is that you have strike while the iron's hot and you sometimes can't wait til a manga is done because it may be losing steam by that point or you just never know how long a manga will be. Although, I find that the best shows don't have source material at all.


All excellent points. Smile If most fans don't buy filler on DVD, we should see less and less of it. I certainly don't see the Naruto filler boxsets doing too well, even with a bonus item in the Limited Editions.

It'd be great if they'd release a filler/summary-free version of an anime (KARE KANO, I'm looking at YOU!) on DVD.
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abynormal



Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 427
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:51 am Reply with quote
HyugaHinata wrote:

It'd be great if they'd release a filler/summary-free version of an anime (KARE KANO, I'm looking at YOU!) on DVD.


cough.

I'd also like to add that it will help if the animators for Shonen Jump titles would actually break things up into seasons, rather than force a new episode out every single week save for certain holidays. [/url]
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braves



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2309
Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:38 pm Reply with quote
abynormal wrote:


Thing is, Kai is pretty mediocre with all its sloppy editing. They even take out scenes from the manga itself and leave filler in, along with censoring certain scenes. The whole thing was so half-hearted that I couldn't stand more than 2 episodes.

abynormal wrote:
I'd also like to add that it will help if the animators for Shonen Jump titles would actually break things up into seasons, rather than force a new episode out every single week save for certain holidays.


I agree. For most SJ shows doing it like this would help out a lot. Not only would this cut down on filler, but they wouldn't have to spend money on it so they'd have more to spend on canon episodes. Though, it's not like they spend much on filler in the first place....
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Kirkdawg
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Joined: 07 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:02 pm Reply with quote
From what I've heard, Naruto and Bleach are WAY behind their manga counter parts and frankly I'm fed up with both series. Both certainly had their appeal initally, but the filler has really done it in for me. I'm all for killing the filler; however, it seems that the audience in Japan doesn't mind watching the filler, so they will keep making them to rake in the dough for as long as they can.
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Emerje



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 7410
Location: Maine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:40 pm Reply with quote
Naruto Shippuuden has well over a year worth of content before it has to worry about catching up. Let's put it this way, the content of episode 118 last week was manga chapter 352, but that same week in Shonen Jump they printed chapter 457. They'd have to cover two chapters worth of content a week just to catch up to where the manga is right now in a year and then they'd still have another half a year of content to go before catching up to where it is at that point. The current run of one chapter = one episode with lots of filler currently places them two years behind where the manga is right now. Hopefully they won't keep milking it like this.

Bleach on the other hand got extremely close before starting the current filler arc. Episode 226, the last canon episode, covered chapter 339 and a bit of 340. That same week the manga chapter was 365. As far as I can remember that's the closest the anime has ever come to the manga. We're talking only about 10 or 12 episodes worth of content and only one full story arc compared to around 5 arcs and a year (or two) of content in Naruto.

I have to ask, what's the difference between the show being done in seasons and just not watching the filler arcs? It's a generic response, but if you don't like it, don't watch it, it's not that hard.

Emerje
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HyugaHinata



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 3505
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:
I have to ask, what's the difference between the show being done in seasons and just not watching the filler arcs? It's a generic response, but if you don't like it, don't watch it, it's not that hard.

Emerje


Well yeah, but when you have filler in between canon episodes (such as the mini-summary during season 1 of the original Naruto series), you end up having to buy both canon and filler. Sad
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eyeresist



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:39 pm Reply with quote
HyugaHinata wrote:
It'd be great if they'd release a filler/summary-free version of an anime (KARE KANO, I'm looking at YOU!) on DVD.

If you did that, it would only be about five episodes long Smile
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:47 am Reply with quote
Kirkdawg wrote:
From what I've heard, Naruto and Bleach are WAY behind their manga counter parts and frankly I'm fed up with both series. Both certainly had their appeal initally, but the filler has really done it in for me.

For me, the current Bleach filler is actually reviving my interest. It's more like what it was in the early parts, when the episodes weren't just fifty bajillion fights that went on forever and kept jumping back and forth between various characters I don't really care about.
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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:58 am Reply with quote
There's a simple answer to the question - when they stop getting ratings and generating revenue for sponsors. Of course, by the time that comes around, usually the show winds up getting canceled.

abynormal wrote:
I'd also like to add that it will help if the animators for Shonen Jump titles would actually break things up into seasons, rather than force a new episode out every single week save for certain holidays.


I'd agree that changing the broadcast pattern, since the 'season' in Japan is like four blocks, reducing it to just two might alleviate some of the "problems" associated with filler. Maybe run big fall and spring promotions in Autumn and Spring and either re-runs or specials in Winter and Summer.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:20 am Reply with quote
eyeresist wrote:
HyugaHinata wrote:
It'd be great if they'd release a filler/summary-free version of an anime (KARE KANO, I'm looking at YOU!) on DVD.

If you did that, it would only be about five episodes long Smile

I'd consider watching all of it, were that the case. The romance was tender and poetic, but there was a little too much baggage between the sweet moments for me to continue. A five or six-episode series would be fine by me- I believe many people enjoyed FLCL.
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:11 am Reply with quote
SalarymanJoe wrote:

I'd agree that changing the broadcast pattern, since the 'season' in Japan is like four blocks, reducing it to just two might alleviate some of the "problems" associated with filler. Maybe run big fall and spring promotions in Autumn and Spring and either re-runs or specials in Winter and Summer.


Two problems with that: First, as I understand it, Japanese TV basically contracts timeslots out to the animation companies. If you don't have anything to air in the timeslot, you lose it and it goes to someone else- and since "someone else" is probably your direct competition, it's makes sense to prefer your own series to losing the timeslot to your competitors. (I think. This is just what I heard.) Second, there's no guarantee that your audience will return after you take a break. Shonen anime is pretty generic, and if one series goes on hiatus there's a good chance the public will snatch up something new and forget about you by the time you come back. It's a lot easier to keep viewers around than it is to get them in the first place.
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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:45 am Reply with quote
BellosTheMighty wrote:
SalarymanJoe wrote:

I'd agree that changing the broadcast pattern, since the 'season' in Japan is like four blocks, reducing it to just two might alleviate some of the "problems" associated with filler. Maybe run big fall and spring promotions in Autumn and Spring and either re-runs or specials in Winter and Summer.


Two problems with that: First, as I understand it, Japanese TV basically contracts timeslots out to the animation companies. If you don't have anything to air in the timeslot, you lose it and it goes to someone else- and since "someone else" is probably your direct competition, it's makes sense to prefer your own series to losing the timeslot to your competitors. (I think. This is just what I heard.) Second, there's no guarantee that your audience will return after you take a break. Shonen anime is pretty generic, and if one series goes on hiatus there's a good chance the public will snatch up something new and forget about you by the time you come back. It's a lot easier to keep viewers around than it is to get them in the first place.


All very true from what I've heard as well; I should have prefaced that if dividing the production work between regular seasons would take a huge realignment of how the television business in Japan, which is probably the greatest barrier to change.

Yeah, shounen stuff as a demographic and genre can be fairly generic; however, I'm a firm believer in that quality products, especially in entertainment media, will win out, given all things equal. This is, of course, almost completely outside of the discussion as what constitutes 'quality', too.

I guess it may boil down to the fact that I'm not opposed to 'filler' or think it is some great heretical travesty when an anime deviates from the manga. Not necessarily saying that anyone in this thread thus far has voiced those opinions but it is a very vocal minority I've heard in the past several years.
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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:47 am Reply with quote
BellosTheMighty wrote:
SalarymanJoe wrote:

I'd agree that changing the broadcast pattern, since the 'season' in Japan is like four blocks, reducing it to just two might alleviate some of the "problems" associated with filler. Maybe run big fall and spring promotions in Autumn and Spring and either re-runs or specials in Winter and Summer.


Two problems with that: First, as I understand it, Japanese TV basically contracts timeslots out to the animation companies. If you don't have anything to air in the timeslot, you lose it and it goes to someone else- and since "someone else" is probably your direct competition, it's makes sense to prefer your own series to losing the timeslot to your competitors. (I think. This is just what I heard.) Second, there's no guarantee that your audience will return after you take a break. Shonen anime is pretty generic, and if one series goes on hiatus there's a good chance the public will snatch up something new and forget about you by the time you come back. It's a lot easier to keep viewers around than it is to get them in the first place.


All very true from what I've heard as well; I should have prefaced that if dividing the production work between regular seasons would take a huge realignment of how the television business in Japan, which is probably the greatest barrier to change.

Yeah, shounen stuff as a demographic and genre can be fairly generic; however, I'm a firm believer in that quality products, especially in entertainment media, will win out, given all things equal. This is, of course, almost completely outside of the discussion as what constitutes 'quality', too.

I guess it may boil down to the fact that I'm not opposed to 'filler' or think it is some great heretical travesty when an anime deviates from the manga. Not necessarily saying that anyone in this thread thus far has voiced those opinions but it is a very vocal minority I've heard in the past several years.
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