Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6534 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||||||||
I tended to judge the episodes on two factors: how much enjoyment I got from the episode first time and, in particular, subsequently; and how much of a hook the episode provided to watch the rest of the series. I don't buy the objective / subjective dichotomy. A person may claim they judge something on objective criteria but those very criteria are chosen subjectively. I do believe, however, that there is considerable overlap in opinions thus making some sort of consensus feasible. Getting back to my two judging criteria: re-watchabillity and an ability to hook me, I'll give some examples of how I judged some of the series. Moribito had a moderately high hook for me and is a much loved and re-watched episode; Death Note had a tremendous hook first time but re-watching it is a chore; Eden of the East was moderately entertaining and provided no encouragement to watch the rest of the series. I wasn't the only one to say that about Eden of the East and I tried to explore why I found it so. Others, like yourself, felt the same about Moribito. We're all different in our judgements although I do believe cream will float to the top - as it did in this tournament. My approach was to try to understand why I enjoyed or failed to enjoy an episode and why it did or didn't encourage me to continue with the series. It was a lot of fun. I was also trying to influence other people, though I doubt I had much effect. People tend to be fairly fixed in their views. With my experience in politics - including speechwriting and drafting campaign material - these rhetorical exercises were also tremendous fun. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Thank you Key and Dorcas_Aurelia for making this tournament and mini-game.
As far as my voting is concerned, I never concealed my personal preferences. And I had the same voting criteria as errinundra, though, I think, I felt differently about some episodes. I agree that Death Note is the sort of episodes that is interesting the first time around, but has zero re-watchability value. Once you know what is going to happen, it is no longer entertaining. It is like crime stories, they are enjoyable as long as you don't know who the murderer is. I found Moribito more interesting than Eden of the East, because I like worlds based on past civilization and I like well-written and admirable women in anime, so for me Balsa > Akira and Saki. And originality, in other words, sticking out from the norm is more than welcome. That's why I supported shows like Mawaru Penguindrum. As for the next tournament, what do you think about the most kind-hearted character? I believe, it would give a different pool of characters and shows a chance. Or I remember there was an interesting proposition to make the most cerebral anime tournament in the previous nomination. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||||||
I imagine that you probably only looked at snippets of the thread (I wouldn't expect anyone who isn't heavily involved to follow every post - hell, I skim a lot of them myself, and I am heavily-involved), so you're probably not aware that "getting me to watch more of the series" was actually a frequently-stated arguing point, especially in the earlier rounds. It's one of the main (and in some cases the main) argument I used to justify several of my votes, especially ones against Haibane Renmei, and I'm far from the only one who did that.
Actually, I thought we did a pretty good job of restricting that. Many people commented on one occasion or another that they were or were not voting for a series specifically because the first episode was distinctly better or worse than the rest of the series. Anyway, assuming that we do another one of these a month or two down the line, I encourage you to get involved. Amongst the long-time regulars we have well-established that there are a variety of different voting and justification standards, so don't let yourself get intimated by all of the dialogue that some participants put into the process. You can always just do what I do and ignore big chunks of it. 
Concerning Aylinn's suggestions: I think a pattern of character and non-character tournaments from this point out might be suiting. A Most Kind-Hearted Character concept is a feasible one, but how interesting would it be? A lot of such characters are rather bland. Drawing distinctions between top candidates would also be very difficult, I think, because their characteristics blur together; there's a limit to how extreme kind-heartedness can be portrayed without it devolving into parody. Still, arguing who does and does not have ulterior motives amongst that crowd could be interesting, and there are cases like Noloty from The Book of Bantorra who could shake things up as atypical examples of the type. Hmmm. . . |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
|
|||||||||||
I don't think kind-hearted characters are necessarily bland. I have learnt that one-dimensional characters are the least interesting and it doesn't matter if they are good or if they are villeins. There are certainly characters that are good and have enough depth to make them interesting. I can think of Takashi Natsume from Natsume Yuujinchou, Erin from The Beast Player Erin, Shouma Takakura and Ringo Oginome from Mawaru Penguindrum. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
|
|||||||||||
If you negate those for votes, Moribito still won by 3. And while I may have been hyperbolic in saying there was no evidence, you're focusing only on that one aspect, as if morality were the online guideline everyone was using. I know in my case, the unintentional comedy of Light's murder spree when it was intended to be dramatic was far more damaging than any other reason for my disapproval. I read the manga before the anime was made, and rated it a 7 overall. Since the anime came out, I have watched the first episode twice, once as it was airing in Japan, and again midway through this tournament. Neither watching compelled me to continue with the series. And that was just as much what this tournament was about as whether an episode demonstrates quality or not. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||||||
|
With no posts in nearly a week now, I'm letting this slide off of stickied status. Feel free to continue to use it to discuss ideas for the next tournament, though again, nothing new will get started for at least three more weeks.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
|
|||||||||||
|
Sorry to revive the fairly old thread but I was just wondering if there was a plan to get another going sometime soon?
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||||
|
I was just thinking about the tournament this morning, as a matter-of-fact.
It's been three months since the last one but has the break been enough for everyone? I personally wouldn't mind if it restarted say late January next year (after the Winter 2013 preview guide is over). |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Personally, I would rather see the thread for the next tournament start sooner rather than later. It's been far too long, and hopefully we can decide on a topic that will generate some excitement.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||||
|
Eh, I was thinking that if we started early next year we wouldn't have to deal with the holiday period. Plus, if Key is going to be running it again then he's going to have to squeeze it in between the end-of-year retrospective and the Winter Preview Guide.
Also, I think we need more of a rest. The last few tournaments have been pretty sad regarding the participation rates, so we need to think of a really exciting topic. I don't know if anyone has one in mind but I know I sure don't. Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
|
|||||||||||
I -- very obviously -- cannot speak for others; but (for myself, anyway) the reason that I do not participate in the tournaments is that I do not watch anywhere near enough anime to afford me the necessary informed opinion to contribute in a meaningful fashion. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||||
|
That is a common reason why people don't participate more, but I have two counters to that:
#1: Many people (including myself) have not seen many of the shows that have been nominated. We still manage. And the video clips and writeups do help. #2: These tournaments can and have spurred people on to watch titles they hadn't even considered before. Think of tournaments as massive recommendation threads. This tournament - Best First Episode - got me to try out a number of new shows, some of which I have or intend to continue with. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
|
|||||||||||
I would be interested in participating again, but the holiday season running from Halloween to Xmas is family time and doesn't really allow for extra activities on my part. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||||||
|
Sometime in the next day or two I'm going to start a new thread to do an Interest Survey on this. Options for starting the process in November and waiting until January will both be on the table.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
|
|||||||||||
|
Yay!
 I prefer sooner because I love these tournaments, but it sounds like it might be easier on everyone if we waited. Hm, that would dodge finals too if we waited...
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group