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I have to admit that this is the first tournament I've participated in. But I very much agree with Past and Spastic Minnow.

I'm assuming these brackets will be based on the current standings, which are skewed because of certain time constraints. So I'll take it one step further. Their should be a nomination-only round with a pre-determined cut-off date. Then an initial voting round before the tournament begins, also with a preset timeframe.

Even considering only viewing the first episode for judging is required, 64(or more) series is very overwhelming. Especially when they're being thrown at you randomly, from every direction.

I don't think the nominations phase is meant to give folks a chance to watch the episodes and make their votes. That's for the tournament proper. It's a nomination phase, so the idea is to filter which shows already have support, with the assumption that only shows with preexisting support should have a shot to compete.

That said, I agree that there's no reason why the nomination deadline and the voting deadline need to be the same. I like the idea of a pure nomination phase followed by a pure voting phase.

Last edited by dtm42 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

I don't think it needs to be complicated or drawn out. Just a twenty-four hour window between the close of nominations and the close of voting. Since votes for a nominee do not need justifications there is no excuse for not being able to find literally one minute of spare time to vote in the entire twenty-four hours.

And if you wanted more time for people to vote for your nominee, then you should have nominated it earlier. Why leave something to the last day when you had a week and-a-half to do it? That's a lesson I learnt the hard way; poor RAINBOW. I wasn't bullshitting when I said it had a better first episode than Death Note or Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. But I didn't give it enough time to muster support, and that's my fault.

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That said, I would like to see the cutoff date for the nominations be posted as early as possible. As I mentioned before, I was avoiding nominating any more series because I feared the cutoff would come immediately after. Then two days went past without any word about cutoff and I was furious, since that is plenty of time (for people to vote).

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I decided to avoid watching any episodes that were nominated, for the voting round. Why? Because if a nominee could not muster enough support from its own established fans alone to make the cutoff then it probably isn't strong enough to survive in the tournament.

Now, I'll admit that there are Anime out there which few people have seen but perhaps meet the voting criteria quite well. You know, the dark horses like Jinto and Lafiel were in the Duos Tournament. Crest of the Stars is not unknown but I doubt many people realised how strong Jinto and Lafiel were until they started winning their matchups.

So one could make the argument that if only established fans vote for nominees in the nominations phase then such gems might not get through to the actual tournament. However, Jinto and Lafiel did get through anyway, so I'm not entirely sure as to the merits of that argument. I thought I'd at least throw it out there though.

Yttrbio wrote:

I don't think the nominations phase is meant to give folks a chance to watch the episodes and make their votes. That's for the tournament proper. It's a nomination phase, so the idea is to filter which shows already have support, with the assumption that only shows with preexisting support should have a shot to compete.

That said, I agree that there's no reason why the nomination deadline and the voting deadline need to be the same. I like the idea of a pure nomination phase followed by a pure voting phase.

Indeed. I agree with that.

GDFan wrote:

I'm assuming these brackets will be based on the current standings, which are skewed because of certain time constraints.

Don't worry about that, I argue with him occasionally but while anyone will have problems with some things Key does a very good job with these. He shuffles the first round and while nothing is certain, he takes the ones that got nominated late into consideration and does a pretty good job of making competitive brackets. You'll get a couple weak parings early and maybe one or two powerhouse entries going early, but that's just how it works.

dtm42 wrote:

Yttrbio wrote:

I don't think the nominations phase is meant to give folks a chance to watch the episodes and make their votes. That's for the tournament proper. It's a nomination phase, so the idea is to filter which shows already have support, with the assumption that only shows with preexisting support should have a shot to compete.

Indeed. I agree with that.

If that's the part you are agreeing with...

But, doesn't that just makes it a popularity contest? I'm pretty sure Futokai Alternative mostly missed the contest not because it wasn't good, but because many haven't seen it. I found it, watched it, and found it good. Other character centered tourneys can be partially judged by the write-up, but the only way to truthfully support this one, IMHO, was with familiarity.

Spastic Minnow wrote:

If that's the part you are agreeing with...

But, doesn't that just makes it a popularity contest? I'm pretty sure Futokai Alternative mostly missed the contest not because it wasn't good, but because many haven't seen it. I found it, watched it, and found it good. Other character centered tourneys can be partially judged by the write-up, but the only way to truthfully support this one, IMHO, was with familiarity.

Yes, I did agree with that.

The tournaments have usually been popularity contests. Just look at all the people who voted against Light Yagami in Clever/Intelligent just because they didn't like him and his ethics.

And let's say by some miracle Futokai Alternative had gotten in. What would have stopped people from not voting for it then?

Look, I realise that some series will unfairly garner votes just because they're popular, and other series will unfairly fail to garner votes just because they're unpopular. But what you seem to want is a nominations phase that extends for bloody ages to give everyone a chance to see everything before the tournament has even begun. That's just not realistic. And people did have time, they had almost two weeks to watch some of the episodes. If people wanted to be informed they had the chance. If they didn't want to then another week probably wouldn't have made much of a difference.

You don't watch every one, you're correct that half of the point is to see the ones that have support. I didn't watch ones that were safe, I watched ones that were borderline, in the only couple hours I had available on the last day- the only time it really mattered. When I gave my list of shows I wished people would vote for it was in hopes that they would take the chance to check them out. And Tris8 did in fact watch Deadman Wonderland on my recommendation and gave it its 5th vote. I figured if I was asking it of people then I should do the same.

I rewatched Natsume's Book of Friends, and GTO, and watched for the first time Monster, [b]Skip Beat[/b], Hikaru no Go, and Requiem From the Darkness and tried to watch Macross Frontier and Arjuna, but couldn't find sources in time. I should have voted for SKip Beat and Requiem but already explained my stupid reason for not. Glad that Skip Beat made it anyways but really feel that Requiem should have made it over some of the others that did, especially since it was not one I expected to like.

Is that wrong? I wish people had more time to consider the ones I was supporting and wish I had had another day or two to check out ones like Arjuna, and Living for the Day After Tomorrow. And I wish others would have had the chance to nominate shows they wish they could have nominated, knowing that everyone would have another day or two to consider them without the knowledge that it was basically pointless to try.

Let's get a couple of things straight here:

1. The exact timing of when the nominations phase ends has always been a flexible judgment call and usually doesn't come with more than 24 hours of notice. In this case I did it when I did, and the way I did, because the voting data I was seeing (which no one else was seeing unless they were keeping their own vote tally) showed that we were approaching a convenient cut-off, one that would prevent the need for a messy run-off vote. Besides, I originally said it would be "7-10 days" and we were already at 13 at that point. That should have prevented a call for the end of voting from catching anyone by surprise.

2. A run-off would have happened had we not come out with exactly 64 candidates with votes of 5+.

Concerning the suggestion about having a nominations and then separate voting phase: That's simply not practical. With the two combined, the process still took two weeks.

Futakoi Alternative was one of the earliest nominees, and was at 4 votes rather early in the process, but still didn't get to a 5th vote. That's a shame, but the cut-off had to happen somewhere. My own nomination Living for the Day After Tomorrow might have made it had it come up earlier, but as dtm42 said about Rainbow, it's my own fault for not getting it written up earlier in the process. (Besides, of the ones I nominated, that one was probably the most borderline. Its first ep is very good but not especially impressive and the series carries itself at least as much on what happens from that point on.)

Excel Saga episode 1, what anime starts out with the main character dying multiple times and being brought back to life multiple times?

The Tournament Bracket Is Now Available!

Find it here.

Each Group was seeded eight deep, with match-ups beyond that mostly being randomized. I did, in a few cases, specifically set up matches that I thought might be particularly interesting, such as the two Read or Die series being head-to-head in D-2 and Deadman Wonderland being head-to-head against Elfen Lied in B-8. (If you don't understand how perverse that match-up is then clearly you haven't seen both.) Those aren't the only early matches which look interesting, either.

Since I don't have the Guide files yet, the hyperlinks in the bracket should take one to the write-up in this thread for the series. (In the case of Bakemonogatari, it's still keyed to the first one, but don't use that to assume that I've decided to go with that write-up. I haven't made a decision on that yet.)

Anyway, See Dorcas_Aurelia's previous post for minigame standards. Barring unexpected complications, the tournament will start when the the clock strikes midnight (U.S. EST) to start March 27th, so you have a bit less than eight days to get them submitted.

Basilisk vs. Excel Saga in round 1? You cut me deep there, Key. Crying or Very sad

(Melodrama out of my system) Good job and thanks for posting the bracket =)

There's some amazing match-ups in just the first round: Time of Eve v Serial Experiments Lain; Rurouni Kenshin v Welcome to the NHK; Aria the Animation v Hanasaku Iroha (was that deliberate?); Samurai Champloo v High School of the Dead (not that I like either of the series but they're good first episodes and well matched); Le Chevalier d'Eon v Nodame Cantabile; Death Note v Princess Tutu (downright cruel - one of anime's most heinous villains against one of its most lovable heroines); Gunslinger Girl v Revolutionary Girl Utena; and, alas and alack, two of my nominations - Moribito v Claymore. In past tournaments I've rarely had to mull over my votes. Already, in the first round, there are several where I don't know yet which way I'll go.

I think it just goes to show that having 64 candidates, rather than 128, could be the way to go in the future. The quality of the field is very strong; there are few marginal nominations among those I'm familiar with.

errinundra wrote:

. . .Aria the Animation v Hanasaku Iroha (was that deliberate?);

Yes.

Quote:

. . .and, alas and alack, two of my nominations - Moribito v Claymore.

Semi-intentional; I had about six titles left in my random sort at that point and thought that putting two strong, weapon-swinging female leads against one another would make for an interesting match.

Ga-Rei Zero vs Noein, bad times Crying or Very sad

Some very interesting match-ups, not least of which is the Read or Die grudge match, wonder how that one'll go.

I'm thinking I might have to take my time with the minigame here, lots to watch and lots to consider.

Some pretty tight matches to pick apart here. As usual, some of these First Round matches are quite brutal to pick from, particularly the Aria/ Hanasaku Iroha match.

Key, there are times where I have to think you are outright evil with how you arrange these matches. Laughing

Fortunately, I've seen the first episodes to many of the titles involved here so I won't have to do much digging up to determine my picks.

I wonder if my streak of being last or close to will continue for this mini-game! Very Happy

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