Forum - View topicOEL manga jumping the shark
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mdo7
 Posts: 6513 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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OK, manga purist.
Please stop hitting on the OEL manga. We're not the only one emulating this. Other country like Brazil, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, China, and South Korea is doing this also. Did you guys forget Osamu Tezuka based his drawing on Disney's drawing. Beside, Megatokyo is getting published in Japan by Kodansha, and there might be a chance Avril Lavigne's manga will get published in Japan because of the contract betweeen Del Ray and Kodansha. Also the British's Manga Shakespeare is getting critical acclaim from both US, England, and JAPAN!!! that's right, JAPAN!!! I bet it wouldn't take long until they make it into a anime. Beside I think people in Japan would love to read OEL manga and other manga published from around the world. I like OEL manga, they are just like Manga but made in America. Beside, our famous novel is getting made into manga like Christine Faheen's Dark Hunger is made into a manga. Tokyopop and Harpercollins sign a contract to adapt several books into manga format. Beside, I remember Akira Toriyama (Dragonball Z) said that Disney was also an inspiration for him, and Toshio Maeda (la Blue Girl, Legend of the overfiends) said Golden Age of Comic Book was his influence for his manga. I think they would love the OEL manga, and beside we might need OEL manga one day for a specfic reason, I don't know what and it's not only market but educational reason. |
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Celes
 Posts: 223 Location: Madison, WI |
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I don't know how I feel about calling OEL Manga "Manga", as I believe there is something that definitely makes one distinct from the other, but I just can't put my finger on it.
However, I will share my personal experience with both mediums. I have read my fair share of "bad" manga. By bad, I simply mean ones I either couldn't get into or were so awful that I knew I had to be on some sort of drug to enjoy it. I've also read a lot of OEL manga. I will admit I've never purchased one volume of it-- I get it from the library. But from everything I've read, I've only enjoyed one series enough for it to hook me through the end- Dramacon. Everything else, which includes (but is not limited to) Sorcerers and Secretaries, Van Von Hunter, Peach Fuzz, Biezegha-whatever, has turned me off from within the first chapter or so. I wish I could tell you WHY it seems like my OEL "failure" percentage is drastically higher than my manga "failure" percentage, but I know it's not because I am an elitist in that I think one medium is better than the other because of the country of origin. It's not because of the art. The art for all of these were very nice in their own styles (except for Legrow, I just think her art is atrocious for some reason, she is my English Rumiko Takahashi where the art annoys the hell out of me). It's not because of the English name on the cover. Maybe it is the story? I often find the plotlines for these OEL mangas to be lacking, as well as the writing. For Sorcerers and Secretaries, I was just like "Who cares?" the whole time. I thought the main character was a big snot and basically a stuck-up b****. If the author was trying to have her come off as shy or whatever, it sure didn't work. The only difference I can think of between OEL manga and the manga we get from Japan is that with OEL manga artists/writers, we are getting people who for the *most* part are getting published for the first time. Their work is not polished. They probably haven't developed much of a style yet besides something that *emulates* manga enough to win a "Rising Stars of Manga" contest. I mean, isn't that technically why these people got published? Because they can copy manga well enough in their work? Why didn't most of these people get a major publishing job before they won or entered these contests? Perhaps it was because the writing was seen as atrocious and unprofessional in the industry. Meanwhile, for the most part, we are getting manga from Japan by veteran artists/writers, which by that I mean most have had more than one project under their belt and their style is unique to themselves and evolved, if not still further evolving into its peak. I know there are exceptions to this. But I think overall we are dealing with a case of amateurs (OEL manga writers/artists) and comparing them to professionals (most of the manga writers/artists we get brought over to America). I am not saying this makes OEL manga less of a medium, but...well, I don't think it is fully evolved yet. Not even close. I would not say there are many "veterans" in this industry, and the work reflects that. |
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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I just wish more OEL manga was of the "moe seinen stuff" type, like Azumanga Daioh or Hidamari Sketch or Gunslinger Girl or Chokotto Sister.
Just like with the majority of licensed manga, we mostly get shoujo or shounen stuff for teenagers. (Thanks, Tokyopop) There's great western art comics like Watchmen or Maus or what have you, but I've never seen a non-manga comic do "moe" right. I think there's a lot more subject matter OEL could expand upon, like moe stories aimed at male college students. Edit: About the term "jumping the shark," that idiom refers to something that once was good, but later declined in quality at a key point. The idiom only applies if you think OEL manga was really good when it first started being produced. |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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It's easier to do repetitive action and badly played out romance. Azumanga requires much better writing and timing. There is no "plot" for you to hide your terrible writing behind, you have to be genuinely funny and interesting. You also need to be aware of life's little quirks to write about them, not self induldged morbid gothic monologues. Look at answerman's columns or even the forums. Whenever a poster has "the next great idea for an anime!" it's always some random "super power, kinda like dbz or naruto" nonsense. I like those shows, but churning out amateur copied works of an original that's already not amazing is something I really don't want to see. |
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infinitebeauty
Posts: 75 |
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There have been god OEL, such as 'Off*Beat' but I think the main problem is, as others have said, the fact that the story often seems too derivative of mainstream manga. It looks like they seem to feel that because they are doing 'manga', they have to have something that everyone will recognize from their previous experiences with manga. Which is a load of tosh, because 'Western style' comics vary widely, as do manga, in terms of storylines and what is being addressed.
So yeah, the main problem seems to be the feeling that the artists/writers are imposing limits on themselves, when they should concentrate more on a good illustrated story. |
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Shi-ne
 Posts: 77 Location: Uh? |
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Yeah, I really hate the fact that when I go to the manga section of a book store, I end up feeling disappointed. Even though these sections are huge, I wouldn't buy anything because a lot of it is teen dramas, romance, magic girl adventures or "OEL". Maybe it's just the stores I visit. "OEL manga"? It's not manga. It is a B&W comic book produced by Americans who have been influenced by the work of Japanese artists. They make these books for the sake of saying they made a MANGA. That is probably why the stories usually aren't very good. Their only goal is to publish a manga, to hell with a decent story. It's alright to use a manga-style in your work, but it's not going to be completely manga. |
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The Xenos
 Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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All those countries have had comics long before manga became so popular. Korea calls it manhwa. China calls it manhua. France has the name bande dessinée. Actually, I know of a manga artist I like influenced by a French one. Should we call his work bande dessinée instead of manga? Do you see the problem with calling things manga because of influence yet?
So I guess he's not really manga then if he's influenced by an American. You're the one arguing that you call something by the influence, not where it's published. 
Into an anime? Wow. Be a little deluded. Japan is having trouble making its own stuff into anime. Plus, don't you think Japan wants people using a Japanese word instead of another country's? Of course they're happy people are using their word. The only thing that makes these books manga is the lame marketing department at the publisher stealing a Japanese name.
Actually, I've heard Japanese readers are pretty conservative and stick to their own stuff. Foreign material is at best a cult following.
Yeah. We call them comics and graphic novels. Actually, they are not just like manga but made in America. Manga in Japan is first published in weekly and monthly anthologies. So, no, 'OEL manga' is not like how actual manga is published. They're graphic novels. I think it's an interesting format that seems to be taking over the market. We need to start thinking in that term, not 'manga'.
TokyoPop is the worst offender at abusing the term manga for their own gain. They're just using the term manga because it's popular.
Well if they're influenced by American comics, then I guess they're not actually manga. They should be called comics. You were arguing earlier that American books influenced by Japanese ones should be called manga. By that same logic Japanese books influenced by American ones should be called comics.
I have no idea what you just said. OEL manga for education? Gee. We've had educational comic strips for decades. Calling it by a Japanese name doesn't make it any different. Hell, I found scans of an old WWII propaganda comic by American comic artist Milton Caniff. It's title? How to Spot a J*p". Yes, I know it's a racial slur, but that was the actual title of a US government sanctioned comic book. It was handed out to GIs to help tell the difference between Japanese soldiers and "our oriental allies" the Chinese. Yes, I know, it's horribly racist. Yet we almost seem to be going to the other extreme now, giving into Japan's nationalism and calling everything by their dominant name. Meanwhile, I think these OEL manga should be grouped in with other American comics. If you ask me, there are more American comics being ignored by fans than OEL books being ignored. I'm not talking about Marvel and DC superhero crap either. Why does a TokyoPop book get coverage while some of those same US authors do books at other companies and are ignored by manga fans and news sites? Something like Regifters by Mike Carey and Sunny Liew is amazing. It's just as 'manga' as anything TokyoPop publishes. Becky Cloonnan does East Coast Rising for TokyoPop, yet do fans even look at her book Demo? Though I did see Plain Janes and the upcoming The New York Four in Right Stuff under OEL. Would any of these OEL manga fans read Warren Ellis books? Ellis is a British author who certainly seems to be a bit of a manga fan himself. I'm not arguing that OEL manga is bad. I'm arguing that it's simply not manga. I argue that it hurts English speaking artists more in the long run if they try to get known by using a Japanese name instead of the merit of their work. |
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skyesage
 Posts: 97 |
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One of my favorite graphic novels is actually marketed by Tokyopop as OEL--Earthlight. I also liked 'Yonen Buzz' a bit--the art was good, and the story was interesting. But that was German.
...Anyways, I do think it is a disservice to call it manga but graphic novel artists in America have such a hard time getting anywhere it seems like these days...which is too bad. And of course some of it (Battle of the Bands) should just go away forever. |
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Monsieur Pink
Posts: 141 |
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Which we (francophone) do use to describe comics in general (oh, wait... I get it  ). Anyway, the term manga shouldn't even exist, it should be "Japanese comics". Okay, I'm leaving.
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The Xenos
Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Well, we use the native Japanese term of manga for comics out of respect for its native comics. If the comics are not native to Japan, I don't see a single reason to use that native Japanese term. We already have perfectly good English terms for them.
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Gozar
 Posts: 63 Location: The Future |
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At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I think OEL Manga jumped the shark the second it was keyed as "Manga". There's nothing wrong with American comic creators being influenced by Manga. It's a great thing. However Manga is not Manga because of it's art style. Hell we all know there are many, many, many Manga out there that stray from the sterotypical art style. It's Manga because it's from Japan.
The problem I have with stuff like Avatar and "OEL" Manga is that...Well to quote Peter Griffin, "It insists upon itself". It's tries to hard to appeal to the Anime crowd yet all it does it take sterotypical art styles and sterotypical storylines and try and mash it together. It just doesn't work and simply annoys me. What really irks me is when they try to trick people by printing it in the Manga reading style (Right to Left). Hoping that by they realize they'll already be into the series. |
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jgreen
 Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Which is hilarious considering how they used to avoid the term like the plague. Remember when the company started as Mixx Entertainment, offering "100% motionless picture entertainment"?
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infinitebeauty
Posts: 75 |
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Re-Gifters! Mike Carey and Sonny Liew are amazing. Have you read My Faith in Frankie? And mmmm, Becky Cloonan art. I got the entire run of American Virgin just for her art. Still need to read East Coast though... Nothing really constructive at all to say, I guess. Although Off*Beat is an amazing example of OEL/American-comics-with-Japanese-influence. Not all of it sucks! |
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skyesage
Posts: 97 |
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Ohhhhh my god! Ajklfdskljsdfl I'm like 75% sure I know you, but that's just coming from the fact that you like Off*Beat and that your username is the same as the one that she uses allll over the place... |
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infinitebeauty
Posts: 75 |
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In which case you probably know me! I just re-use this name over and over again. |
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