Forum - View topicPoll: What do you think of Moe?
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Oh, tempest, what have you created?
Before anything else, I am unable to vote for some reason and am only able to view the results. Whatever. I suppose the closest would be, "The concept of moe disturbs me, but I respect the rights of others to enjoy what they like, even though it disturbs me," and just replace "respect" with "generally tolerate." Then again, it depends on what definition your going by. I mean, if it is what many claim (and appears to be the most agreed upon definition), then I just don't find myself in awe of "feelings of wanting to protect a character who is also cute" or whatever. I mean, whatever happened to words like "sympathy," "emotional attachment," or somethin' akin to that? That concept is just downright ridiculous to me because it also entails, on occasions, the creepy association of lacking a spine of one's own, so to speak, so as a result there is a sudden gravitation to this character who is purposefully put in a manipulatively sad position and where the viewers is basically forced to feel sorry for them. I just don't buy into that. Take what I say obviously with a grain of salt, as the only two "moe-centered" anime/manga that I've ever truly enjoyed is Air and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (might as well throw in the OVA and TV series of Magic User's Club since I don't know how to classify that, and I haven't seen Princess Tutu) as I frankly don't "get" the "MOE~!" applied to Azumanga Daioh and Yotsuba&!. I'll probably be kicking myself later for jumping into this...
Yeah, and so now we are apparently all still fearful of gays, have the agenda of Communists replaced by Environmentalists in the sense of propaganda being spread, and racism to have taken on new forms (Middle Easterners, anyone?) while numerous African-Americans (not all, so don't call me out on this) stuck in the rut of glorification of superficiality, sexism, racism, and playing more of the role of being "victimized like their ancestors" when they obviously weren't even alive during slavery, and some of them not even being alive during the heated times of the '50s. My point which a few might call bull on? The targets and situations have simply changed. There will always be some constant problems like these, and like Malintex Terek said, we will likely be thought of in a similar view a couple or so generations down the line.
But it wouldn't be illogical to say that it is the fault of not only just the entertainment industry, but those who eat up such drivel. The consumers are just as much to place the blame upon as are the suppliers.
You mean people aren't screaming out "We!", or is that too Communist fer ya? (It is a bit surprising to see that not too many people are familiar with the novel considering that it is arguably the biggest influence on 1984.)
It depends on what type of censorship, for what reasons, who would benefit, and who wouldn't. If, for example, people are throwing a rage about their neko-maido-loli-twincest-whatever getting censored and calling out injustice, then I seriously think that they need to reconsider what they're doing with their life.
Wait, where did NGE come into all this? Yeah, the original series has a lot of sexual fan service, but so does all of Gainax's anime except for The Wings of Honneamise, and heck, the majority of anime does, too.
Personally I'm at a bit of a loss as to why Azumanga Daioh is considered moe, but then again there appears to be no final agreement on what moe truly is because you have so many folks poppin' in with their definition, and the origins of the word (from what I understand) are so utterly ridiculous that I really can't get much understanding out of it as I mentioned above.
There's a fine line between satire and fan service, and in the case of anime they are frequently used in tangent. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya straddles it and falls into fan service way too often. From what I remember of it, Mikuru's character is, for all intents and purposes, pretty much useless and largely only serves to exist as to please t3h fapboys with the various amount of outfits that she'll wear. And, sorry to say, I don't buy the "foil" bit about Mikuru for Haruhi at all. |
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Mirrinus
Posts: 230 Location: La Thiene Plateau |
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Well, remember that Mikuru was originally created in novel form without any indication that it'd ever be animated, and you don't exactly get to see her in various outfits in the novels all that often... Really though, Mikuru and Yuki are just too different from Haruhi to be a mere coincidence, and I personally think their contrast is an important aspect of Kyon's own character development (I'm thinking of novel 4 right now...it's pretty spoilerific though). |
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Wolverine Princess
Posts: 1100 |
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Agreed, I don't care if I'm not being politically correct, "Non-sexualized moe anime character typically between the age of three and thirteen!" isn't nearly as fun to chant as "loli loli loli!" |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I'm not a fan of moe per say, but I do have issues with those who try to use the term as a blanket to cover loli. They're just wolves in sheep's clothing and only fooling the noobs, and nieve
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Iritscen
Subscriber
Posts: 793 |
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Really? I know DB/Z pretty well but have never read the Yu Yu or OP manga. How do you mean fan service? Somehow OP seems rather more innocent than I would expect if it offers fan service as I define it (I have a hard time imagining Nami in a bathing suit or less, or whether that would even be appealing). |
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Richard J.
Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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I do think you're looking at the wrong area of psychological motivation for rapists/murderers though. You're suggesting that the impulses are coming from a stereotyped view of women and that apathy itself creates a danger of committing such acts. While I agree that apathy is a problem, it doesn't lead to crime but rather to ignoring the plight of victims of crime or not trying to help people who are in need. The most important factor that motivates criminals is a desire to make themselves feel better. No body goes out and rapes a woman just because they think women are "inferior" or whatever. They do it because it makes them feel good. If anything, I'd say that narcissism is far more dangerous than misogynism.
I've seen and heard things that I thought were absolutely horrific, both in my anime/manga fandom and in just my day to day life. Still, I think it's better to strike at specific targets rather than saturation bomb people's free speech. (Yeah, I know my rhetoric seems to be getting a tad hyperbolic but this really is how I feel about censorship.)
The day that some politician finally puts a stake through the FCC's heart will be a great day for me. I think that you and I should just agree to disagree on this issue. We've each got a fair idea of the other's view point and it's clear neither of us is going to change their mind anytime soon. Although I would appreciate you at least giving me the benefit of the doubt when it comes to having the media influence my brain. My upbring instilled a very strong independent streak in me.
Also, unless real people/children were involved in making it, you can't possibly argue that complete fabrications can be considered subject to censorship without opening the doors to all such creative works being subject to the same censoring.
Say, wasn't this thread about moe once upon a time? |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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The art that was originally drawn for the novel kind of screams "ANIME STYLE" and I've heard various comments from those who have read the said novels that the author seemed to be, shall we say, inspired by certain aspects of anime. I don't know the credibility on that, so I can't go much further than that. Point is, though, we're not talking about the source material, but the anime. Her role isn't much more than fan service, and there isn't much a fan can argue about that as much as they would like to throw around the "satire" angle.
There are such extremities as exaggerations, stereotypes, archetypes, etc. and why not bother to make a comparison with Haruhi and Itsuki instead of Mikuru and Yuki to Haruhi? I'd seriously doubt that there's any grand scheme or ultimate groundbreaking revelation with their personalities like that -- they're just meant to be appealing and/or likable to the audience. There's not much science behind that. For the record, as much as I find The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya to be overrated, I enjoyed nearly as much as so.
But not all obsessions are equally hazardous to one's health. I mean, whether it's just simply because of society's view or the individuals, I'd take it that the typical person would think an obsession with music is healthier/less hazardous than watching drawn, stereotypical moe characters on their screens. And I'm not going to go into the "lolicon ---> rape" issue since I find the argument for that weak, and I have other problems with lolicon outside of the rather misguided fear of "IT WILL MAKE PEDOPHILES AND RAPE LITTLE GIRLS" or whatever is being spewed.
Well, I'm against censorship in principle, but again, not every single one isn't beneficial or even harmful.
It was more like an offhand comment than anything else. Then again, my sense of humor is a bit too bizarre in itself...
I don't really tend to think of it as a domino effect. True, it has happened before, but one act does not mean that it will be repeated. But that's another issue.
I was actually wondering whether or not Japan might actually attempt to make some strides to having certain otaku not have to get their fix of whatever fetish it is that is keeping them from the real world. The United States has its own problems, and I don't think cutesy female characters or whatever is on that list.
I understand what you mean, and I agree to an extent, but again, not every single little thing is ultimately as harmful as the other. A statement against, say, illegal immigrants might have an actual point to come across. Then let's turn around and look at lolicon/shoutacon (since this topic has shifted from moe to lolicon, like all topics of such subjects inevitably do). The only real purpose there is pure self-pleasure of someone getting off from looking at a child being seriously sexualized. Yeah, it's drawn, and yeah, it's probably stylized, but the fact remains is that it's drawn to look like a child being put in that position. I don't think too highly of that, but I can ignore it were the person otherwise fine. The problem, though, is that largely those who do indulge in such interests aren't the most socially capable, and it bothers me that sad cases like them are being ignored and no real help is given to help. But I digress. |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10448 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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It's news to me that Dragonball had any moe at all. I can see readers possibly getting moe over any young, innocent character, but DB really had no moe whatsoever. (For starters, the "moe phenomenon" didn't exist yet). Why do you even put moe and fanservice together? They aren't remotely related. As for "fanservice" there were some echi jokes at Bulma's expense in the earlier volumes, although it's debatable if these can be labelled fanservice since they were used as plot devices. (While fanservice is the insertion of unnecessary material for no purpose other than to pander to the readers/viewers). -t |
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