Forum - View topicREVIEW: Clannad: Complete Collection Blu-Ray
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varmintx
 Posts: 1217 Location: Covington, KY |
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I know tradition is hard to break, but I really wish ANN would start including more evaluation of a title's technical attributes. Carl even brings up the fact that the only thing fans need to know is whether or not the blu-ray is worth it on its technical merits, but can't actually talk much about why that is because of ANN's review format.
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Good or not, I simply cannot watch this series because those character designs. I have never seen more unattractive character designs in FOREVER. Especially since they are supposed to be attractive but aren't. This is a major problem in all of Key's works. This is whay happens when you take Moë too far.
Also, I don't like melodramatic bullcrap. Especially melodramatic bullcrap that is blatantly fake and is grabbing me and yelling "FEEL SAD DAMMIT". I remember watching the first episode and going "NOPE" because I could just tell that I was gonna get a river of melodrama. |
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Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
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I love love love melodramas, so I eat Clannad up with a spoon everytime I watch it. I have the original sub-only sets on DVD, but one day when I get a Blu-ray player I might pick this up, if only to watch that gorgeous opening scene a trillion times in HD. (Moving camera! Motion everywhere! The colors, Duke, the COLORS!)
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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The issue here is not about romance stories being manipulative, it's whether you feel like you're being manipulated. Key works heavily depend on getting us care for those girls, grow something similar to a romantic attachment. This is different from feeling sympathy. That is why those girls are characterized through personality quirks, appearance, demeanor. This characterization doesn't involve as much sympathy as attraction. And once there is attraction, the writers can do pretty much anything with those girls and the viewers will respond. Once someone recognizes it as that, he likely won't give a crap about those girls anymore. |
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nhat
Posts: 922 |
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Eh it's entertainment, chill out and have a good time with the series. If it evoke emotions of happiness, sadness and everything more, it's not something a piece of entertainment can do to a person everyday!
I think the Reviewer Carl needs to realize that and to do that. Last edited by nhat on Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Otaking09
 Posts: 637 |
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NANA? Same amount of episodes; 10 times more variety in characters, direction, and theme. |
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TC-man
 Posts: 118 |
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Oh Boy, Clannad writing/drama felt artificial and manipulative? So are all fictional dramas from everything, e.g. from Hollywood movies to Oscar nominees, since all these are acted and not real! Sure none of the directors/scriptwriters from Hollywood or elsewhere would never want to manipulate you to believe their story/plot is sad and true or believable, right? I find it hard to believe that Clannad get a C- for Story because this so-called artificial/manipulative thing!?
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Otaking09
Posts: 637 |
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Did you even read the review? It's the main characters! Most Oscar nominees have characters that grow into different people (or at the very least have learned something) that we can see and identify with. What kind of person with background like Tomoya can help, even remotely, with the amount of problems all these basket-case girls have? spoiler[His family is practically dead at the beginning] and this makes him an expert??? I only liked the series up to the Fuko arc because how he helped at least made sense... Carl said that the only passable characters are the ones that support. I find it hard to believe that fans of a series can't take criticism or be so threatened by someone else's opinion. Comparing everything to Oscar nominees without explaining why (or how) doesn't really do anything...
Unless it's stylistically different (Aria), or a comical anthology (Azu. Daioh) then most of the best (non-visual novel inspired) slice-of-life tend to have a storyline that can be followed. Unless you know something I don't... Last edited by Otaking09 on Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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I never really understood the idea that all good stories must have their characters grow and change. Sure, this might be considered the 'ideal' story-telling and character progression method, but I don't think that all shows need to follow this formula to be good, especially in the case of slice-of-life shows.
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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Regardless of what it is, all stories need good characters. And good characters change throughout the story. They react and learn to the thigs that happen around them. Even in a slice-of-life (which usually at least have continuity), shouldn't the characters grow from all of their experiences? After all, real people grow and learn from the things that happen to them. Hell, SOL's should have the most character development because they focus on everyday life. Anyway, what I'm saying is: a character who grows and changes is more intersting than one who doesn't. That's why I believe that Simon from Gurren Lagann is a really well-written character. He goes from being a whiny, scared, and dependent boy, to being a brave, manly, and awesome badass. If the characters of Clannad are blatantly fake, then it's hard to care about them, because they're just plot devices to make you sad. Not real characters. Given how Clannad is a drama, its readers/viewers saying the 8 Deadly Words is one of the worst things possible. |
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vinamara
 Posts: 229 |
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Tomoya had a dysfunctional family which is exactly why he found a new home with Nagisa's family. He enjoyed his time there and felt like he should help them/her. Tomoya comes out of his shell and interacts more with the girls and helps them out because he understands their pain.
Nagisa acts as a good influence on him and Tomoya knows that she has become the source of his happiness hence he becomes protective of her and chooses her in the end. Nagisa too is supported by Tomoya as she becomes more forward and makes friends and assists Tomoya whenever he needs help. They both complement each others' actions and outgrow their weaknesses and finally confess to each other. If that ain't character development then I don't know what is. The main essence of the show is how each character deals with his/her struggles and how they change when they overcome them. Of course the major part of the character development takes place in After Story but Clannad isn't a slouch in character development either. |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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Perhaps if Clannad were made in black and white so that only Fuko was colorized (red's a good choice... it stands out), people would realize good story telling is a manipulation.
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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Yes, it is.
But "characters" that are mere plot devices are Bad Writing. If the fakeness is blatantly obvious, the entire story falls apart. |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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Tell that to Mr. Speilberg, whose "fake" not only kept the story from falling apart, but walked away with several awards for doing it. The position is flawed. |
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TC-man
Posts: 118 |
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Of course, I have read the review, but it seems that Carl is talking about the whole Clannad in terms of direction/writing is artificial and manipulative, in an effective way, and not about the characters only, almost as if the creator of the anime is setting up "booby-traps" at the right places to trigger that cry-fest, the manipulative part. For example: "There isn't a relationship, character, event, or emotion in it that feels real. You can see the seams where the plot stitches the heroines' stories together, and hear the clanking machinery as it maneuvers Tomoya into their lives." He also clearly compared Clannad with "a piece of music that you loved was written by a computer program", or "that the bread machine you just bought can make bread that tastes just like your mother's". So it's clearly about the writing, scripting and/or direction of Clannad, and not the characters alone were causing these artificial and manipulative feel; the characters are just a small part of the entire picture. That's all what I can interpret from the reviewer's words. And I don't feel I am threatened just that there's some criticism about Clannad anime or anything, but I am just a bit disappointed that the part of story has been given a C-, because it feels as if the reviewer was in search of something negative in the Clannad anime, though I am not saying he really was. In my opinion it feels that Clannad is way too "over-analyzed" in this review, but of course I will respect the reviewer's view of point of the anime, it's his own review after all. But what negative is for the one can becomes positive for the other, since that manipulative way in tricking people to cry etc. because the sad story in Clannad can be seen as brilliant direction/scripting, because many people are crying because of all this, people are believing that the story is believable and truly sad. Perhaps the "input" (the story/plot, strings or booby-traps, direction, performance of the voice-actors etc.) may be artificial (they are all acted after all, just like live-action movies), but the "output" is for many people real, at least it feels real for them, that's why people are crying manly tears, because they are empathizing with characters e.g. from Clannad (or any anime with similar approach such as Kanon, Air or Saikano (not a Key/Kyoani production). |
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